Yes

Yes

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/i0dhm/warning_cyber_false_flag_anonymous/

I've thought about the govt infiltrating Anon before. It's not hard to follow the logic in your link. Though it's possible that Anon is doing these things and the govt is trying to get them, I think we all know that it's impossible for the US govt to not have infiltrated at this point in time.

Government infiltrating Anon?

Clearly you have no idea as to how Anon works. It doesn't matter if they're in or not. Issues pop up, and the people that support an action, join up. Think of it like a blob. It'll take all it can get, and it'll let anything go that doesn't want to be in it, regardless however, the blob lives on through all events.

More closely, think of V for Vendetta.

If Anon is some chaotic driven hive-mind... isn't it the least bit possible to think that this blob might be driven by a "head" or even an arbitrary "pole" that has a direction.

And if it does have a direction, as seen by many of the targets Anon has pursued, then is it really impossible to think that creation of this head might easily be made by anyone with enough influential channels?

Every wildfire has to have it's first ember doesn't it?

I'm not trying to be a contrary dick here, but you just CLEARLY do not understand how anonymous operates.

There is no leadership, no grand wizard, if an idea looks appealing, people jump on it, if it doesn't - they don't.

Except there are, actually, indeed people in leadership roles. These people run the anonops IRC server and IRC channes, blogspot , Twitter , and the now-down old anonops website, etc. They may not be the official leaders, but people still look to these people for guidance about what to do. They check these sites for updates and directions. They are not official leaders, but they do fill the leadership roll. In fact, the targets for Op Payback were pretty much decided among a small cabal in private IRC channels.

While it is true that if a bunch of self-identified Anon did something that goes against the "leadership" I've been discussing, it's still Anonymous, because, indeed, Anonymous has no official leaders. But to say that there is no leadership at all is pretty naive.

A fed could, theoretically, social-engineer himself into one of these secret IRC channels and direct Anonymous for his own means.

That's exactly what I mean. I hate when people say "there is no leadership". There might not be a written name but there are people who submit ideas and takeover operations. And that right there is where I believe it is possible for government agents or officers working for the govt to infiltrate during these times when Anon needs people with expertise.

I don't see why it's so hard to imagine the FBI entering these channels and using them to give reasons to pass these unconstitutional Internet bills.

Being unknown is what makes Anon great but it's also what makes it dangerous as well. One never knows what is the motivation behind an operation. And like you said, stuff was decided in the private channels (much like how some Senate bills are passed at 3am in a closed door session). Who knows what goes in these chats. And again, like you said, it is naive for anyone to say that there is no leadership in Anon. Any operation, military or online, needs someone or a group of experienced people to lead the charge. That's basic war strategy.

Anon has leadership in the same sense that Reddit has leadership. And FBI infiltration is perhaps similar to Reddit infiltration in some ways (or spammer infiltration). Anyone can post a thought/link/idea and you'll have some people run with it (spreading the thought/link/idea), some questioning or calling it out, others will ignore it completely. When FBI does something stupid in the name of Anon, I'm sure there are quite a few people sniffing for BS. It would take a significant effort to effectively infiltrate Anon in a meaningful way because of this de-centralized hive-mind organization, but it's definitely possible.

They don't really have a head. That's the deal - there is no central, or overriding authority. It's a collective. It's so mind bogglingly simple, that it often makes people over think it. People don't need to have an authority figure to do work, but they need a consensus of sorts.

Someone comes up with an idea, and others join into it (or don't).

That's the biggest problem people have with regards to wrapping their heads around how it works. It's a collective. You can join too if you want. Hell, you are already a part of it.

It's an idea. People in this world are dicks. Anon is the anti-dick. Dickish in their moves, but more or less for the good of the people.

The ember is the idea.

Think of it like reddit - someone (anyone) submits a post, and others either downvote it to hell, or upvote the shit out of it.

Really - watch V for Vendetta.

Eff. I really did not understand V for Vendetta.

There are summaries online you can read.

That was cute.

No upvote? For shame.

Sorry, I was distracted.

If you don't understand V for Vendetta then you should go read some books and concentrate more on your school work or go back to school or IDK . . . .

you got it fine. this guys describing something unrelated.

Well, in every, for the most part, coordinated attacks they have always had a group of ~5 peopke acting as Press Releasers and a central "hub" of sorts so they don't lose track of why they are doing it.

If Anon works that way it will be destroyed by honey pot traps. The thing about infiltration is that they will always have access to the best stuff.

Why not? They formed Al-qaeda with the CIA's help and can do whatever they like. It's way too convenient they come right out and make the laws first then say oh and by the way were are expecting some huge cyber attacks so we'll need to make ways to shut the internet down and have more governmental control over it?

How nice - perfect timing.

That's my point. The timing is too convenient and considering how LulzSec is "affiliated" with Anon, anything LS does can be used to prosecute Anon members under the guise of "protecting the Internet from hackers" despite 3/4ths of Anon being script kiddies.

This all started with the Patriot Act being passed within days after 9/11 (which, more than likely, was let happen in order to be the reason to pass the PA).

I find it hard to believe that an anonymous group hasn't been infiltrated by someone. It's just unlikely and implausible that no agency or sec firm has been involved or at least kept tabs on some of the ops going in Anon.

According to this Guardian UK article about 1 in 4 US hackers are FBI informants.

So unless Lulzsec or any other group is a close-knit group of friends they are probably Feds or covertly run by the Feds in some capacity.

Remember that the leader of the 1993 WTC bombing was an FBI informant who thought he was just going to set up a fake bomb to get "real" terrorists. He realized he was being set up as well and covertly recorded conversations with his FBI handlers.

according to guardian

What the fuck i got a lot of conspiracies to talk about!

Yes, and I got seriously downvoted for saying so two days ago.

It would be no surprise if teh CIA was initiating cyber attacks to justify spending billions on Cyber Attack defense...and to defend CORPORATE INTERESTS at taxpayer expense.

It worked on 9/11

Classic problem-reaction-solution!

I am betting by 1011 we will have our digital 9/11

Well you're off by 1000 years :(

I'm talking about OCTOBER of 2011 -- which is 1011 -- or as I was referencing digital was a play on the binary look of that date.

What makes you think it will occur before October?

The best part of anonymous is the government can be part of the fun AND then make the rules against it.

Leave my internet alone, governments.

I've also remembered that anyone could be a part of anon.

I suppose this could give a sense of false leadership; also "members" of anon could come forward to the public with "terrorist" like plots.

But then Anon wouldd denounce those people and the story would become too complex for the public to care about.

Besides, Anon has said repeatedly that it is a decentralized group with no power structure. A little while ago someone spoke to the press, claiming to be a "leader of Anonymous". This person was quickly shown to be a fraud, and the story quickly went away.

funny thing...

if Anon is decentralized with no power structure, how does any press release get vetted? for that matter, how you could Anon show that one part of Anon (that say, blew up a bus) was not affiliated with another part of Anon (that say, ddos'd a website)?

literally anyone can claim to be acting on behalf of Anon and no one can legitimately deny that claim. (though of course "leadership" is an entirely different bug)

It is because Anon can be anyone that Anon has plausible deniability in 100% of situations. This is clearly a double edged sword that can be taken advantage of by both advocates and detractors.

Good point.

Absolutely. Lulzsec has shut down the PSN network, attacked high profile websites, declared war on the FBI, hacked the US Senate page, and yet the government has turned a blind eye to this activity (even after claiming hacking attempts against the government are "acts of war"!). It's quite suspicious. They've arrested Anonymous members for much less, namely LOIC use. While it's obviously easier for law enforcement to track down a bunch of unskilled LOIC users than skilled hackers, I find it very hard to believe that FBI or other three letter agencies don't have the resources to take them down. It's also no secret that the government hires good hackers or keeps them around through consultant gigs.

Did you see that lulzsec was supposedly registered by the guy who turned in Bradley Manning?

Yup, Adrian Lamo.

http://pastebin.com/0Gxgu6ns

Upvote this, it's very relevant

but their website is http://lulzsecurity.com/

http://www.dailytech.com/UpdatedLulzSecs+Strikes+Latest+Victims++Hacker+Mag+2600+FBI+Affiliate/article21818.htm

yeah you're right. After I posted that comment I read the other post that is about this and they pretty debunk it with this fact and the fact that you can use almost whatever information you want for your whois information, which I should've realized.

Can we upvote this more please

You do know that you can enter anything for the WHOIS contact information, right? I could register a domain to Barak Obama using the address president@whitehouse.gov if I wanted.

The usual practice is just to take stories that already exist, and inflate them and give them wide media coverage, when planning to bring in some draconian regulation that reduces freedoms.

USS Maine, Gulf of Tonkin, 9/11 et. al. were very expensive, very elaborate ruses. It's gotten to the point where they don't have to blow up ships or buildings any more to casually strip individuals of their rights and freedoms. So yes, I definitely think that at least some portion of the recent round of "cyber attacks" (beginning to hate that term) are government/CIA/whomever/whatever-sponsored.

Prepare for Cyber-War Tonkin Gulf False-Flag Attacks From the US. http://lewrockwell.com/douglas/douglas40.1.html

Top 25% of world's hackers are under FBI control The FBI and US secret service have used the threat of prison to create an army of cyber terrorists to control all cyber crime globally... http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jun/06/us-hackers-fbi-informer

US creates a "Cyber Al-Qaeda" to destroy sovereign countries Clinton cites 'historic opportunity" to manufacture a new enemy for the future... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43369742/ns/technology_and_science-the_new_york_times

US bankrolls 'shadow Internet for dissidents' abroad... http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jyLorww_LugjNffiBVsCsCOOgB9A?docId=CNG.1fcc0e7959c322e74e95e5dcb254ec68.271

Between Two Ages by Zbigniew Brzezinski... http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2057538/between_two_ages_by_zbigniew_brzezinski/

US Funded Cyberterrorists describe how they engaged in state sponsored acts of terrorism against governments that do not obey New World Order doctrine... http://www.bushcenter.com//the-conference-on-cyber-dissidents-global-successes-and-challenges/

White House posts summary of secret Bush cyber plan, but its list of goals gives few details... http://tech.gaeatimes.com/index.php/archive/white-house-posts-summary-of-secret-bush-cyber-plan-but-its-list-of-goals-gives-few-details/

Apology accepted, Nick.

Precisely! Take something the public knows jack shit about, make it seem really scary, then clamp down on it for profit and government gain.

And the whole "dark web" focus, on being able to buy drugs, hitmen etc on the dark web. Ipv4 run out of addresses, ipv6 now needs to be used widely. What to do with 300 trillion ip addresses? Scare up dark web evil then mandate that all devices that connect to a net have to have a government registered unique ipv6 address that can be tracked to an individual. No more anonymity.

Bing bing bing. This guy is a winner!

Absolutely!! Sony was hacked so it would put fear in younger voters and create headlines.

Sony was reported to have been hacked . I don't make special efforts to hang out in the Playstation universe, but there are lots of gamer kids on this street and I've heard no over-the-fence conversations about "OMG our PS's been hacked!".

So are you a Sony-got-hacked-over-and-over-and-over-again denier?

"PS's" weren't hack. Our banking and personal information we share with Playstation was hacked (due to the fact that they didn't encrypt any of our information and put everything in plain text making it easy to get). I received an e-mail basically telling me that "hackers" had my personal information including credit card number and it would be a good idea to report my card stolen. At first I was scared that my card wouldn't work or get declined at a store. If I was naive, wasn't into current events and believe everything my government tells me. I could easily be for any internet control that the government is going to try to offer in the upcoming months...

It's like big excellent game of digital hide and seek. The USA has proven they consistently suck at things like this. If 1 in 4 US hackers work for the government, I'm willing to wager that 1 in 4 government hackers are actually hacking the government from the inside. Derp.

Building upon this notion, has anyone considered the idea that perhaps other countries may operate under the guise of Anonymous as well? Say Chinese, Russian, or Israeli hackers? Seems that hacking the senate and FBI is a big step from DDoSing Visa and Paypal. Perfect scapegoat... China hacks the CIA, then puts out a press release as Anonymous saying they did it.

Brilliant.

The truly genius thing about china doing that is the inevitable engrish will simply be mistaken for interwebs cheezburger speech.

As much as I love conspiracy theories, I do not think the first major cyber-attack against the US will be a false-flag operation. However, I am certain that a version of the "Cyber-Patriot Act", a set of laws that would grant the Federal government broad and sweeping powers over access to and regulation of the internet with the US, is already written and sitting in some desk drawer or on some hard drive in Washington D.C.

Just waiting for the opportune time. And as soon as the first major cyber-attack (with real consequences to actual citizens) does hit the US, that bad boy will be pulled out, dusted off and signed into law with the cheers and huzzahs of the majority of citizens.

It is a shame.

See my post on lulzsec in this sub yesterday. We're thinking similar things here.

my thoughts exactly actually

I wasn't until now. I would hope not, but I could see that being true.

I would like to answer your question with a rhetorical question "Does a bear piss in the woods?"

that's what I've started to think too. It is a possibility one can never be to sure.

My question is why do they advertise it in the media every time a company gets hacked? What purpose does it serve other than to get people scared?

Protect IP Act

Look at the long list of companies in support of it.

I'd say it's very possible.

Yes

Most Certainly! That's all these inbreed, globalist, elitist pieces of shit know. Problem, reaction, solution.

Maybe Lulzec hasn't gotten caught because they're hiding behind 7 proxies?

Here's a great post that sums up everything. I think it's a foregone conclusion. Found in the r/politics thread

no but it woulnt surprise me if it were true or they did it anyway.

Yup.

No, but I guess anything's possible.

This should be xposted to a bigger subreddit

Probably only about 99%

Obama's secret life as a script kiddie.

Someone should tell lulzsec that their shit is going to end up getting the internet regulated monitored censored and probably throttled and eventually the internet as we know it today wont exist anymore

I think that is the whole point of their OPeration.

In the end the jokes(lulz) going to be on them when their internet is gone. I mean i guarantee lulzsec has no life outside of the net and most would probably commit suicide.

Spread fear, offer security at a cost.

Sorry does anyone not think this? Any time hackers get caught we find evidence of unreported hacks - the publicized ones are typically a straw man version because they can never prove that theuly did the real ones!!

No it is lardhead scripskiddis doing things they do not understand the consequences of.

TINFOIL HATS TINFOIL HATS OMG

Okay now with that out of the way, I've been saying this ever since LulzSec popped up.

I'm not much into conspiracy theories b ut the technology is out there and stuxnet looks very much like it was a us / Israel engineered virus. So I'd say this is very plausible.

You'd be a fool to think otherwise.

I'm saying this weeks, but we could go one further, was this posted by a member of COINTELPRO to see how many RedCons know the truth? But then we could go one further, am I a member of COINTELPRO disguised as a RedCon to smear such a idea/conspiracy? Or we could go one further, that when I "WOKE UP" I actually had a mental breakdown and instead of fighting an info-war against a New World Order Global Police State I'm actually in a straight jacket somewhere screaming at my feet. Or we could go one further, that YOU'RE asleep and the last ten years has been a dream and when you wake up it will be election night 2000.

100% -- there's not any doubt.

Totally

does it matter who is doing it? Isn't the whole point that someone can do this at any point for the LuLz... No matter if it's the Government or some guys in the basement.. LoL morons missed the point..

The internet isn't something that can be controlled though. It's not like one person decides how everything works on it. No matter how hard government would try, there will always be people that have a better understanding of it

What about china hacking google?

Google was hacked through its own backdoor they setup for government surveillance.

Who knows if China really did it or not but it made the news that they're vulnerable. Not sure why that would be advertised.

There are probably backdoors like this in every bank and phone company just waiting to get hacked.

I can't say I haven't think about it yet, but we need solid evidence.

it's happening to pass anti-internet legislation. Definitely. Everyone already knows that part. The part you don't know is that you're supposed to know that part. You're supposed to think these things. It's all part of the plan.

Lulzsec is getting super popular so nobody misses the details as they're happening. They're riding the viral internet in plain sight. They're also talking about Freemasons and reptilians blah blah blah in order to get the attention of the conspiracy crowd.

the purpose of the attacks is not internet controls so much as it is to simply make people believe in the complete false narrative. This only happens when people see the narrative unfolding. Lulzsec and their antics are one means of drawing attention to the narrative.

the real goal, beyond internet controls, is for people to evolve their consciousnesses by discovering the false narrative and how it works. This happens over time as the narrative becomes more observable and more of its workings can be seen. The purpose of this evolved consciousness is to allow a false understanding of God and the universe to be confirmed. The pieces are already in place. The New Age, UFO, and mystical propaganda is the hypothesis, but the evolved consciousness will be the proof. The end game is the eclipse of the Christian God.

more details in subsequent nested links.

[deleted]

No. You're an idiot.

You didn't ask whether it was true; you asked whether "anyone else" thought the same as you. That means that you think a few hackers using simple SQL injections and DDOSing to temporarily disrupt the operation of game companies actually represent a conspiracy. A conspiracy whose ultimate goal is to convince people who play online video games to support increased Internet regulation.

The answer is no, and you're a fucking idiot .

Walter, you're a fucking cunt faced idiot. Hacking the FBI, IMF, US Senate and now the CIA...using just simple SQL? Yeah right.

Again, your a dumbfuck cunt.

Walter, go fucking kill yourself.

Eff. I really did not understand V for Vendetta.

Well, in every, for the most part, coordinated attacks they have always had a group of ~5 peopke acting as Press Releasers and a central "hub" of sorts so they don't lose track of why they are doing it.