Flat Earth - debunking fake science and cognitive bias
0 2017-11-30 by CybergothiChe
In 250BC, the Greek scientist Eratosthenes made first known measurement of the size of Earth
I believe his experiment is meaningless for the reasons I will describe
When Eratosthenes measured the angle, he used non-euclidean geometry.
By doing so, he went in assuming that the earth was round .
Had he used euclidean geometry, he would have gone in assuming that the earth was flat.
https://wiki.tfes.org/Distance_to_the_Sun
*For those who need to brush up on their trigonometry : https://www.cs.unm.edu/~joel/NonEuclid/noneuclidean.html
euclidean vs non-geometry https://imgur.com/a/nEhXG
using non-euclidean geometry, gives a result that the earth is round , and the sun is 93,000,000 miles away.
using euclidean geometry gives a result that the earth is flat , and the sun is around 3,200km above our heads.
Now, we also have to accept that mathematics is not a science , as it is unfalsifiable.
The natural sciences investigate the physical universe but mathematics does not, so mathematics is not really a natural science.
In mathematics... the ultimate arbiter of correctness is proof rather than empirical evidence. This reflects a fundamental difference in what one is trying to achieve: mathematics is concerned with finding certain kinds of necessary truths.
http://euclid.trentu.ca/math/sb/misc/mathsci.html
or, to put it another way, we would all agree that one plus one equals two, and that one plus one does not equal three, and by showing that one apple plus one apple equals two apples, we have proven that 1 + 1 = 3 is false.
However, mathematics can prove that 1 + 1 = 3
as shown :
https://i.imgur.com/UWYmrMA.png
Q.E.D. mathematics is not a science.
Thus, the very language in which the natural sciences aspire to describe and analyse the universe, can be called into question.
to go further into the rabbit hole, we look for proof of existence while going in assuming that the world around us exists.
Thankyou for reading, and I would love to hear your thoughts :)
And, as always, keep watching the skis!
69 comments
1 pinko_zinko 2017-11-30
Are you sure you are mathing correctly?
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
perfectly
https://i.imgur.com/UWYmrMA.png
1 pinko_zinko 2017-11-30
I'm thinking you erred. It's been too long for me to remember, though. I did this kind of thing in school and there was a good explanation about how it's a fallacy.
1 WadeWilsonforPope 2017-11-30
Its a false proof.
Divide by zero error. If a=b then you cant have this part of the equation a(a-b) = (b+a) (b-a)
It would look like
1(1-1) = (1+1) (1-1)
Or
1 0 = 2 0
Its a trick because you can factorialize against a and b but not real values.
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
touche
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
answered problem about dividing by zero in comment below by dcodcodco :)
1 dcodcodco 2017-11-30
They're not. They divide by 0.
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
but that's the point, you can.
2/0
practical example :
there are two things, which have to be divided between zero people, how many things does each person get? zero.
mathematical example :
2/0 = ∞
∞ + ∞ = ∞
∞ - ∞ = ∞
∞ x ∞ = ∞
∞ / ∞ = ∞
therefore ∞ = 0
2/0 = 0
1 WadeWilsonforPope 2017-11-30
Right. So your proof in the image above comes out to 0=0
You just said that 2/0=0 and your proof shows us a(0) = (a+b) (0)
Or
0=0
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
and by using the same formula as shows that 1 + 1 = 3, you can prove that 0 = 1
ie :
and we've come full circle
1 WadeWilsonforPope 2017-11-30
Yeah thats the trick... This is why its called a false proof.
You cant use a (b−a) = (b+a) (b−a)
Its not mathematically correct.
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
If
then why doesn't
1 / 0 = 0?
1 WadeWilsonforPope 2017-11-30
Now to illustrate this lets write it like this.
1 _
0
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
Ok, I see what you mean, but I have a question,
could X not be zero or infinity?
https://i.imgur.com/uuAj6wx.png
1 WadeWilsonforPope 2017-11-30
No.
Zero infinities is still zero.
1 sollenel 2017-11-30
You did that wrong
0 + 1 = 0 + 1 simplifies to
0 - 0 = 1 - 1
0 = 0
1 pipocaQuemada 2017-11-30
Since we said that a = b, note that you can replace this with b 2 - b 2 = b 2 - b 2, i.e. 0 = 0.
since a = b, b-a must be 0. So this is really a*0=(b+a)*0 which could also be written as a*0 = 2a*0
Here's where this goes off the rails. (a*0) / 0 is not equal to a. (a*0)/0 = 0/0 which is undefined. So that inference step (the division by zero) is not mathematically valid.
1 pinko_zinko 2017-11-30
No. You may not divide by zero if you want to pretend to know mathematics. Once you are using logical conundrums it's no longer math, it's pointless riddles.
1 dcodcodco 2017-11-30
2/0 is undefined. 2/x would approach infinity as x approaches 0, but one can never actually take infinity to be a value like you are doing. Furthermore, your practical example is nonsensical. I could just as easily argue that you're not dividing anything because there's nobody to divide it amongst.
1 Etoiles_mortant 2017-11-30
For an OP being proud enough to have stated "maths are not science", you do show some serious understanding of mathematical science.
Even ignoring the division by zero fiasco, half of the examples you stated using infinities are wrong.
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
there's a giant conspiracy here somewhere .
1 WadeWilsonforPope 2017-11-30
Looks like the big conspiracy here is public education in America is a joke.
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
I live in Australia, so looks like another assumption there.
funny how science makes so many of those.
1 WadeWilsonforPope 2017-11-30
Bullshit you do.
Ive never seen Australia, Ive never met an Australian.
I dont believe Australia exists.
1 pinko_zinko 2017-11-30
Do you conspire to make flat Earth supporters look uneducated?
1 L00kInside 2017-11-30
Argues science is a lie then starts a mathematical proof with 2/0 = infinity. 😂😂
1 TupacsFather 2017-11-30
http://i.imgur.com/tSWwcdH.gif
1 WadeWilsonforPope 2017-11-30
1 NonThinkingPeeOn 2017-11-30
To explain away the findings of the Bedford canal experiment, globe earth proponents claimed that light curves and distorts through atmospheric effects.
Why can't that same explanation be used to explain the underside of cloud illumination on a flat earth model sunset or sunrise?
1 WadeWilsonforPope 2017-11-30
Bedford was proven to be curved. Dubay never seems to talk about that one though...
Guy put flags on the water and viewed them lengthwise down the river. Flags in the middle of the span were higher than those on either side.
He had to take Rowbotham to court to get his prize money.
The sun is never ever below the horizon on a FE, right?
So where is the temperature difference curving this light at almost 180 degrees? Its such a dramatic change its impossible.
Look at this image.
https://i.imgur.com/bQoPXT3.jpg
That is simply not possible on a FE.
Watch this. Notice where the sun comes from and how the horizon actually cuts it in half.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GseizX2z2kU
1 _Amish_Electrician 2017-11-30
Why is mars accepted as being round and earth is flat?
1 jtmoney219 2017-11-30
Asking the real questions...
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
if the sky is a dome, with a super hd projection of the sky, then Mars is just a projection, and it can be made any shape they like.
where does all the information for Mars come from? The Man.
NASA, ESA, Soviet space programme.
Can we, in a practical sense, send a probe to Mars? no, it is prohibitively expensive.
So we have to take on faith that the evidence they provide is true.
Kind of like Joseph Smith, saying that God spoke to him, in a bag, through magic gold plates, that no one else can see, and you have to take it on faith that it is the way he says it is, because he holds the only proof.
you have to accept that Mars exists, and is as is shown in the photographs, because they are the only ones taking the photographs.
at this time, it is non-falsifiable to us, therefore not science.
yes, you may argue, that it is only a technological problem, and eventually, we will be able to all go to space, and pass by Mars and be like, look there it is, up yours flat earthers, but until that is the case, you cannot personally prove the point, like I said, you cannot personally prove, using only the angles, that the earth is round, because if using another (accepted mathematical) system, it shows that it is flat.
If there is no way for a theory to disprove itself, it must be disregarded.
Moreover, to avoid any, 'your theory can't be disproven either' arguements, I am not trying to prove that the earth is flat, I am trying to show that the evidence I have provided, which is claimed as proof of the flat earth, is based on nothing more than a self-proving hypothesis.
if the facts disprove the theory, change the facts to suit the theory, right?
therefore, 1 + 1 = 2 but it also can equal 3, 0, 1, infinity, or whatever you want it to be, and you can prove that it does.
the theory has proven to be unfalsifiable, as in you can get whatever result you want, therefore must be rejected.
Ergo, the entire basis of proving that anything exists is based on the incorrect assumption that things do actually exist.
Therefore, prove that anything exists, before you try to prove that the earth is round.
What empirical evidence do you have that reality is in fact real?
Let's get all meta up in here.
1 _Amish_Electrician 2017-11-30
But people have observed mars in the sky for longer than plan to deceive could be held
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
just because people have always been deceived, doesn't mean it is true.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-tradition.html
if everyone believed that the sky was green, someone pointing out it was actually blue would be evidence. just because people have believed something for a very long time does not make it true
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
or are you asking this just because you heard Elon Musk ask it two days ago?
http://nationalpost.com/news/world/why-is-there-no-flat-mars-society
interesting all this anti-FE stuff is coming out harder and harder, the more and more evidence that is shown.
They fight the hardest when they are against a wall.
1 FORKinmyDICK 2017-11-30
Terrible terrible TERRIBLE comparison to make. Great if you want people to think you're full of shit right away. Like do you believe that Mormon bullshit? I can't even imagine why you think it would be beneficial to bring him up.
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
I am not a Mormon, no.
Can you send a probe to Mars? Prob not.
Do you know anyone who can? I highly doubt it.
Do you know anyone, other than the government run science institutions, who can launch a probe to mars? not that I have heard of. Yes Elon says he can, but can he right now? no.
so no one, except The Man, can send a probe to Mars, to find out, directly, that it is actually a thing, right? right.
all we can do is look at it through a telescope.
So, if the sky were a massive HD display, you could see images in your telescope or whatnot fine and dandy, like you can look at a tv through a telescope.
And then, beyond that, what about this bombshell (stand back) :
if astronomers looked into the sky, with their high powered telescopes, and discovered that, in fact it WAS a screen, or if someone went up there, and showed that it WAS a dome, then, boom their whole industry collapses, because for over 100 years, you all didn't know you were looking at a screen?
and then, it's a domino effect from there, telescope businesses go under, because no one needs them anymore, and then it's Chinatown, and you put your hand into a pile of goo that used to be your best friends face, then you'll know what to do.
As for JS, I am saying he said,
and so on.
( no offence to the Church of Latter Day Saints, believe whatever you believe, peace )
and that is EXACTLY like The Man sending a probe to Mars, and then saying :
and accepting that, without question.
What other proof do you have that Mars exists?
I'm going to crack this whole thing so wide open they'll have to call it Marsgate.
*get it? open? cause it's a gate?"
yeah, you get it.
<drinks a Mountain Dew and snowboards out the window>
1 ihbarddx 2017-11-30
Magellan sailed around the world. When's the last time you visited the earth?
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
circumnavigation is entirely consistent with the flat earth model
https://imgur.com/a/EjYbi
1 WaitTilUSeeMyDick 2017-11-30
So this entire time no one has ever made it to "Antarctica" ever? It's basically the farthest point you can make it. In all of this time you don't think this wouldnt have been exposed?
1 ihbarddx 2017-11-30
So are edges. Where are they?
1 deadbeatbert 2017-11-30
That’s a lot like saying the Earth is flat because David Icke was commentating when Steve Davis lost the world snooker championship using David Bryant’s pipe to record a maximum break of four touchdowns in 1983.
Just because David Icke, Steve Davis, David Bryant, Snooker and touchdowns existed in 1983 I can’t equate all of them together to come up with a way to make Cliff Thorburn the winner.
Excercises in algebraic paradoxes do not make Euclidean geometry invalid.
Your job is not to disprove earth is spherical with convoluted arguments, it is to prove it is flat with scientific proof.
1 ridestraight 2017-11-30
This guy is using nails and a flat surface to show the math. It's about 30 mins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIhgFT-OipU
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
Why is this not possible?
one plus one equals three
divide by zero
make zero equal one
and we've come full circle.
1 WadeWilsonforPope 2017-11-30
For the life of me I cant understand why you are ignoring the people who point out that there is a divide by zero error.
1 WaitTilUSeeMyDick 2017-11-30
The answer is very simple. They are just reposting this. They don't understand it.
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
I thought I understood it, but since, have come to understand that, although hypothetical such as a and b can be brute forced into behaving in ways they were never intended to, when they are real numbers, the rules do apply.
Also, dividing by zero turns out to be a lot harder than I imagined.
I accept that I was wrong, and have made that point at least a couple of times.
Thankyou to everyone who has helped me understand that, just because it is a logical argument, it is not a mathematically correct one.
Unfortunately, however much we want it to be, logic cannot win all battles. Some things are just inherently illogical.
Although one should be able to divide by zero (2/0 should equal either 2, 0, or infinity), sadly it doesn't work that way, and thusly, this theory falls apart.
Thanks again :)
1 opiniongenerator5000 2017-11-30
you're trying to prove the earth is flat by using a false math proof. good job!
1 hisayo92 2017-11-30
How do you get from:
ab - a 2 = b 2 - a 2
...to...
a = b + a
Am I missing something here? On phone so I didn’t work it out by hand (steps 3-4)
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
1 + 1
let the first 1 be a, let the second 1 be b
a equals b, 1 = 1, sweet, now we're set, we can enter the mysterious world of pure mathematics
therefore, a x b = b 2, as we have established that a and b are equal and both equal 1.
so, then, a x b - a 2 = b 2 - a 2, because, as above, we can show that these are all equal, as a and b have been show to both equal 1.
a x (b - a) = 1 x (1 - 1) = 1 x 0 = 0 (to be correct 0.000.... recurring, or ∞)
(b + a) x (b - a) = (1 + 1) x (1 - 1) = 2 x 0 = 0 (to be correct 0.000.... recurring, or, again, ∞)
so, ∞ = ∞
a = ∞
b = 1
∞ = 1 + ∞
∞ + 1 = ∞
therefore, again, ∞ = ∞
then, prove that infinity equals zero
then, prove that zero equals one.
0 = 0
0 x 0 = 0 0
0 = 0
0 x 0 - 0 ^ 0 = 0 2 - 0 2
0 = 0
0 x (0 - 0) = 0
(0 + 0) x (0 - 0) = 0
0 x 0 = 0
so we have established that a and b are equal to both 1 and 0.
"but wait!" I hear you say, "something can't be 1 and 0 at the same time?!?" <outraged face>
as a matter of fact, it can, I present the Qbit :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubit
right?
good, let's press on with our plan to lift the curtain on the fabric of reality and look deeply into the essence of existence
0 = 0 + 0
0 = 0
and
1 = 1 + 1
1 = 2
so, 1 can be shown to equal 0, 1, 2, or ∞.
the rest follows pretty straightforwardly :
so, as we have shown, there is no true value for these numbers, as it can be shown that :
therefore we have shown that :
and you can keep proving away all day, until you reach :
Therefore, I contend that this is mathematical evidence that we live in a quantum simulation.
1 hisayo92 2017-11-30
No but without substitutions, how do you get from step 3 to 4? You should be able to do it with just a and b since the equation is just a and b.
At least, that was my understanding of it. Am I missing something here?
I already saw the OP, so no need to rehash it here. Getting from step 3 to 4 should take less than 3 lines of text/numbers. It looks like a factoring issue to me. Check my comment to which you just replied.
I FOIL’d step 3, but I’m not sure how it leads to step 4?
1 hisayo92 2017-11-30
And in this one how do you get from:
a + 1 = b + a + 1
...to...
a + 1 = 2a + 1
What happened to b? Or is this whole thing predicated upon plugging specific numbers in for the variables? If so, I don’t think that’s how functions are supposed to work.
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
yo, I will get back to you about this, I need some time to think about this. I also have to drive somewhere just now.
but I assure you, I will have an answer for you regarding both these replies, within the next 6 hours.
and no I don't mean, 6 = ∞ lol.
I thank you for your patience.
1 hisayo92 2017-11-30
No problem thx
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
sorry, I thought I had replied to this. Turns out I was wrong, and you can't divide by zero.
Thanks for your input :)
1 c_parrott 2017-11-30
a direct flight from JNB to PER is 9 hours and 15 minutes non stop. On a flat earth model those two points are at extreme ends of the earth, therefore not able to be made in 9 hours. Mathematics is not a science.
1 Ascendedconciousness 2017-11-30
I feel that the only way to believe in flat earth is if you don't believe in any other life elsewhere in the universe.
We can look off our planet and every body in space appears to be globe shaped. Flat earthers believe that earth is the only flat planet? The only exceptions in the visible universe?
If that is the way of thinking then the earth must be extraordinarily special and probably is also the only place life exists because of how unique and special the flat planet is. No globe planet could mimic the physics or properties of a flat planet.
I don't get it. I believe in other life and globe planet. However I do believe that planets are hollow.
1 sirio2012 2017-11-30
Aeroplanes+history=lunatic flat earthmaths÷idiots
1 heroicworkethic 2017-11-30
Flat Earth is a psyop to make the conspiracy theorist group look stupid.
That CT in a rocket to prove the earth is flat that never happened. It's just mindless brainwashing for the masses to make what we do look crazy.
That said, we must really be on to something if we are getting our own psyop.
Ask yourself -- why is FE given all this media attention when PG was shut down so quickly?
Is one real and the other fake?
1 ihbarddx 2017-11-30
Coriolis correction of artillery shells is inconsistent with flat earth.
1 justinxduff 2017-11-30
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c71_1511931944
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
https://imgur.com/a/vKSB2
1 Alantuktuk 2017-11-30
Not one bit of that made any sense.
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
Are you sure you aren't suffering cognitive dissonance, and it is such a harsh blow to our system of understand, to have it pointed out that,
because, then your mind is like,
rather than saying,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
1 Alantuktuk 2017-11-30
No. it literally is nonsense, as if written by a crazy person or a child.
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
that's what your brain wants you to think.
1 FORKinmyDICK 2017-11-30
That's a lot of mental gymnastics to connect that to FE. I don't pretend to know everything but I know even implying 1 + 1 = 3 in some math equation has nothing to do with the physical reality of determining a flat or round earth. I get your point but it only makes things more fucky.
1 pinko_zinko 2017-11-30
I'm thinking you erred. It's been too long for me to remember, though. I did this kind of thing in school and there was a good explanation about how it's a fallacy.
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
If
then why doesn't
1 / 0 = 0?
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
I live in Australia, so looks like another assumption there.
funny how science makes so many of those.
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
Ok, I see what you mean, but I have a question,
could X not be zero or infinity?
https://i.imgur.com/uuAj6wx.png
1 CybergothiChe 2017-11-30
1 + 1
let the first 1 be a, let the second 1 be b
a equals b, 1 = 1, sweet, now we're set, we can enter the mysterious world of pure mathematics
therefore, a x b = b 2, as we have established that a and b are equal and both equal 1.
so, then, a x b - a 2 = b 2 - a 2, because, as above, we can show that these are all equal, as a and b have been show to both equal 1.
a x (b - a) = 1 x (1 - 1) = 1 x 0 = 0 (to be correct 0.000.... recurring, or ∞)
(b + a) x (b - a) = (1 + 1) x (1 - 1) = 2 x 0 = 0 (to be correct 0.000.... recurring, or, again, ∞)
so, ∞ = ∞
a = ∞
b = 1
∞ = 1 + ∞
∞ + 1 = ∞
therefore, again, ∞ = ∞
then, prove that infinity equals zero
then, prove that zero equals one.
0 = 0
0 x 0 = 0 0
0 = 0
0 x 0 - 0 ^ 0 = 0 2 - 0 2
0 = 0
0 x (0 - 0) = 0
(0 + 0) x (0 - 0) = 0
0 x 0 = 0
so we have established that a and b are equal to both 1 and 0.
"but wait!" I hear you say, "something can't be 1 and 0 at the same time?!?" <outraged face>
as a matter of fact, it can, I present the Qbit :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubit
right?
good, let's press on with our plan to lift the curtain on the fabric of reality and look deeply into the essence of existence
0 = 0 + 0
0 = 0
and
1 = 1 + 1
1 = 2
so, 1 can be shown to equal 0, 1, 2, or ∞.
the rest follows pretty straightforwardly :
so, as we have shown, there is no true value for these numbers, as it can be shown that :
therefore we have shown that :
and you can keep proving away all day, until you reach :
Therefore, I contend that this is mathematical evidence that we live in a quantum simulation.