It took the LVPD 15 minutes to reach the 32nd floor after the shooting started. It took them another 45 minutes to breach the room. Why do we have militarized police again?
You cant just fire back at the forward face of a hotel. You must travel up and breach the room. Unless you have a belt-fed machine gun helicopter tour booked for that exact time. . .
Listen smart-ass, the fact that gramps has cateracts doesn't mean shit to hard-core, mutha-fucking, door kickin, shit stomping, dog shooting, peace enforcement officers, mmmkay?!? Breakin duh law is breaking duh fucking law.
Swat teams are normally on call and not just sitting around the station waiting. The teams are drawn from officers in different section of the department with different schedules. Some will be at home and need to drive in gear up and then move out when the whole team is ready. This takes time.
Cause Paddock called the front desk and told Swat that if they breached he'd remotely activate the sprinkler systems and Fentanyl would come flowing out like a river of death.
Nah, I don't fucking know, but it would take time move those distances under the circumstances.
Cause Paddock called the front desk and told Swat that if they breached he'd remotely activate the sprinkler systems and Fentanyl would come flowing out like a river of death.
Goddamnit, why did you post that?? Now, we are going to read that in this week's official narrative revision.
Seriously, I already knew the answer to the question before I asked it. Per the police radio traffic, police were on the 32nd floor for the final 3 minutes of Paddock's barrage. For the next 45 minutes more and more police accumulated on the 32nd floor but did nothing. I'd wager they all had body armor and full auto AR-15s. Why? All they did was wait for the SWAT team. The same response that would have occured ig they were disarmed entirely.
The first officer arrived in the stairwell of the 32nd floor 16 minutes after the first 911 call. It's actually a good response time.
This means that the shooting was over, and had been over for several minutes, before the officer even arrived in the stairwell.
Then he waited for backup officers to reach him. Then he waited for armored SWAT teams to reach him. A cop doesn't solo approach a room containing a man with automatic rifles. A group of cops don't even do that if it is avoidable, that is a SWAT job.
It wasn't an active shooter situation at any point in time - once law enforcement was on-scene. They deemed it a possible barricade situation.
Once SWAT was there, floors 29-31 were swept clear, and SWAT started sweeping it's way to room 135 where they then put breach charges on the door and then blew their way in to find an already dead shooter.
None of this is incorrect nor conspiracy, this is all from the live feed of the police radio of the officers and SWAT members.
The conspiracy in the shooting, if one exists, lies within the motivations and the actors and the planners - but not with LVPD response.
It's a moot point. Command is thinking active shooter with barricade, and with the pressure of live firing on the public form a vantage point, they probably didn't think too much as to what he is doing in silence, other than needing to breach and disarm as safely as possible. I bet if the thought of a large bomb being armed popped into their head, they would think all the more reason to breach and disarm as fast as possible.
Sry I'm so late getting back, I like the answer about ir or maybe a heart beat sensor, idk. However, I don't get what u say is moot point, unless they have confirmation of death somehow, then who knows what he was doing, didn't have to be arming a bomb, could been nodding off a bit from a shot of heroin only to pop up and start shooting again. So I'm guessing they did have confirmed of death otherwise I dont know why they would've taken so much time to breach without at least smoke screening the crowd or running interference with a helo, again amateur guesses. The only thing that leads me to believe they may have been putting their own safety above the crowds, is how long they took in Orlando while people died. Maybe it's justifiable to say if the shooter took out the whole SWAT team somehow it would delay rescue that much longer. But how that could happen in a highrise without the shooter taking himself out idk. Maybe the team was split up and looking for bombs or multiple, simultaneous breach points before somehow getting confirming he was dead and assembling a team at the door for breach to blow booby traps on the way in. Still though, while I do agree we need a certain level of militarization for the police, because lessons learned on the battlefield will become increasingly relevant, Ops question was more along the lines of why do we need them if they can't stop a tragedy from become a mass tragedy, whether due to bad training or sheer physics. After Ferguson, Orlando and more than a few incidences of militarized police being deployed in the last few years and showing their lack of training and/or regard for civilian rights, while I agree we need militarized police, i'm not sure that's what we have, at least for the majority of incidences we've all witnessed since it became an issue after Ferguson.
Then he waited for backup officers to reach him. Then he waited for armored SWAT teams to reach him. A cop doesn't solo approach a room containing a man with automatic rifles. A group of cops don't even do that if it is avoidable, that is a SWAT job.
My point precisely. We have routine police wearing body armor and carrying AR-15s in their cars. Why? If they are only going to wait for the SWAT team, what is the point?
You haven't addressed the fact that the response of the street level LVPD was exactly the same as if they were unarmed. The LVPD made the case for disarming street level police.
You asked why they have body armor and AR-15s in their cars. I showed you the event that preceded ARs in squad cars. I explained why they carry body armor.
Most departments that have swat won't have their regular cops perform a dynamic entry. They don't have the equipment and aren't trained for it.
And if the North Hollywood bank shootout happened today, the result would be the same. The militarized street level police would evade the shooters and call for better equipped and trained SWAT officers. Thus, it makes perfect sense to demilitarize street level police if not disarm them completely.
The conspiracy in the shooting, if one exists, lies within the motivations and the actors and the planners - but not with LVPD response.
I was alluding to the conspiracy where the wealthy have gutted the Posse Comitatus Act by giving military grade equipment to toy soldiers. This shooting and others have clearly demonstrated that there is no reason for street level police to be armed whatsover.
Whatsoever? This ignores the need of residential response outside of a large scale attack. I'm not a police force apologist by any means, they need a complete overhaul in the oversight and accountability department. Having said that, I'm sure the victims of street or domestic crime feels very differently about having first response armed or not.
But the latest sync with police audio shows an officer on the 31st floor 8 minutes after shooting started. watch at 7:30 in this clip:
https://youtu.be/RJsormyzCQY
Before fridays presser things were suspicious now they confirmed it by their reaction to Thursday nights events. At presser we saw them claim the press conferences purposes is only to calm the public. He said they wanted help days ago now complains that too much info exists and its hard for them to deal with it but they chased 1000 leads. They unprovoked issued multiple wide statements. No one else was involved and we are not engaged in a conspiracy topping it all off with in a supposed attempt to clear the air no questions allowed. They knew a Campos question would come and they were not wanting to deal with that yet
Yep and they refuse to release the number of non-fatal gunshot victims. In fact, I have had several comments angrily brigaded for askng about it. The number of fatal/non-fatal gunshot injuries gives you an idea of the shooter's/shooters' accuracy.
55 comments
1 XxJefferson-StatexX 2017-10-15
So they follow orders and stand down when told to.
1 HempCO719 2017-10-15
You cant just fire back at the forward face of a hotel. You must travel up and breach the room. Unless you have a belt-fed machine gun helicopter tour booked for that exact time. . .
1 letsgetphysical__ 2017-10-15
They had to wait until the FBI assets evacuated the building and evidence destroyed.
1 stayingontask 2017-10-15
They also had to evacuate the entire floor, maybe even those above and below too. I don't think this is a weird part of the story.
1 azzazaz 2017-10-15
To break into pot smokers homes?
Or those illegally gathering rain water?
Or those illegally using solar panels?
1 MellowEpistle 2017-10-15
Is it illegal to collect rainwater in US?
1 N0ttheCu1prit 2017-10-15
Yea no shit I've never heard of that.
1 gomer2566 2017-10-15
In some parts of the country yes. Mostly in the west to prevent watersheds from being damaged by everyone collecting water.
1 AngryD09 2017-10-15
Listen smart-ass, the fact that gramps has cateracts doesn't mean shit to hard-core, mutha-fucking, door kickin, shit stomping, dog shooting, peace enforcement officers, mmmkay?!? Breakin duh law is breaking duh fucking law.
1 Weirdoldhippy 2017-10-15
they never mess up
1 BanMikePantsNow 2017-10-15
Or to make asset seizure raids easier?
1 Sorge74 2017-10-15
Hopefully they at least no knock raid the right house... I swear cops are allowed to screw up more on addresses then FedEx.
1 assistedSUICIDE 2017-10-15
They have all the tools and none of the training.
1 perfect_pickles 2017-10-15
not true, they can shoot a vicious Pomeranian from 100 yards.
1 venious 2017-10-15
Tanks will now be required, for sure.
1 gomer2566 2017-10-15
Swat teams are normally on call and not just sitting around the station waiting. The teams are drawn from officers in different section of the department with different schedules. Some will be at home and need to drive in gear up and then move out when the whole team is ready. This takes time.
1 perfect_pickles 2017-10-15
sounds like a waste of resources.
1 bartink 2017-10-15
Not having a dedicated team saves resources.
1 jiggetty 2017-10-15
That's not how metro SWAT works.
They're dedicated SWAT officers
1 purple_engineer 2017-10-15
to scare us into submission. all cops are bastards
1 ddogg7864 2017-10-15
This is the correct answer. A militarized police force is not in place to "protect and serve". It is to control the masses.
1 AngryD09 2017-10-15
Cause Paddock called the front desk and told Swat that if they breached he'd remotely activate the sprinkler systems and Fentanyl would come flowing out like a river of death.
Nah, I don't fucking know, but it would take time move those distances under the circumstances.
1 SexualMurder 2017-10-15
That sounds like a pretty sweet river a death NGL.
1 BanMikePantsNow 2017-10-15
Goddamnit, why did you post that?? Now, we are going to read that in this week's official narrative revision.
Seriously, I already knew the answer to the question before I asked it. Per the police radio traffic, police were on the 32nd floor for the final 3 minutes of Paddock's barrage. For the next 45 minutes more and more police accumulated on the 32nd floor but did nothing. I'd wager they all had body armor and full auto AR-15s. Why? All they did was wait for the SWAT team. The same response that would have occured ig they were disarmed entirely.
1 COOKlES 2017-10-15
Careful with what you say, people here might take your fentanyl claim seriously and start spreading it as "confirmed"
1 no1113 2017-10-15
To keep you safe, citizen.
1 velimak 2017-10-15
Do you want the real answer?
The shooter only shot for 9 minutes.
The first officer arrived in the stairwell of the 32nd floor 16 minutes after the first 911 call. It's actually a good response time.
This means that the shooting was over, and had been over for several minutes, before the officer even arrived in the stairwell.
Then he waited for backup officers to reach him. Then he waited for armored SWAT teams to reach him. A cop doesn't solo approach a room containing a man with automatic rifles. A group of cops don't even do that if it is avoidable, that is a SWAT job.
It wasn't an active shooter situation at any point in time - once law enforcement was on-scene. They deemed it a possible barricade situation.
Once SWAT was there, floors 29-31 were swept clear, and SWAT started sweeping it's way to room 135 where they then put breach charges on the door and then blew their way in to find an already dead shooter.
None of this is incorrect nor conspiracy, this is all from the live feed of the police radio of the officers and SWAT members.
The conspiracy in the shooting, if one exists, lies within the motivations and the actors and the planners - but not with LVPD response.
1 AngryD09 2017-10-15
This should be top comment. Thank-you.
1 TerpeneTaster 2017-10-15
they could have possibly been sure he was down by using IR scopes on the room.
1 perfect_pickles 2017-10-15
what line of sight !?
1 TerpeneTaster 2017-10-15
Maybe a helo outside
1 chickenbizkit 2017-10-15
In what ways were the responding units "militarized"? What equipment did they have access to that some don't agree they should?
1 K-StatedDarwinian 2017-10-15
It's a moot point. Command is thinking active shooter with barricade, and with the pressure of live firing on the public form a vantage point, they probably didn't think too much as to what he is doing in silence, other than needing to breach and disarm as safely as possible. I bet if the thought of a large bomb being armed popped into their head, they would think all the more reason to breach and disarm as fast as possible.
1 AngryD09 2017-10-15
Sry I'm so late getting back, I like the answer about ir or maybe a heart beat sensor, idk. However, I don't get what u say is moot point, unless they have confirmation of death somehow, then who knows what he was doing, didn't have to be arming a bomb, could been nodding off a bit from a shot of heroin only to pop up and start shooting again. So I'm guessing they did have confirmed of death otherwise I dont know why they would've taken so much time to breach without at least smoke screening the crowd or running interference with a helo, again amateur guesses. The only thing that leads me to believe they may have been putting their own safety above the crowds, is how long they took in Orlando while people died. Maybe it's justifiable to say if the shooter took out the whole SWAT team somehow it would delay rescue that much longer. But how that could happen in a highrise without the shooter taking himself out idk. Maybe the team was split up and looking for bombs or multiple, simultaneous breach points before somehow getting confirming he was dead and assembling a team at the door for breach to blow booby traps on the way in. Still though, while I do agree we need a certain level of militarization for the police, because lessons learned on the battlefield will become increasingly relevant, Ops question was more along the lines of why do we need them if they can't stop a tragedy from become a mass tragedy, whether due to bad training or sheer physics. After Ferguson, Orlando and more than a few incidences of militarized police being deployed in the last few years and showing their lack of training and/or regard for civilian rights, while I agree we need militarized police, i'm not sure that's what we have, at least for the majority of incidences we've all witnessed since it became an issue after Ferguson.
1 AngryD09 2017-10-15
This should be top comment. Thank-you.
1 BanMikePantsNow 2017-10-15
My point precisely. We have routine police wearing body armor and carrying AR-15s in their cars. Why? If they are only going to wait for the SWAT team, what is the point?
1 bartink 2017-10-15
This is when cops started to carry ARs in their cars. They carry body armor because some people shoot at cops.
This isn't the problem with cops and military surplus equipment.
1 BanMikePantsNow 2017-10-15
You haven't addressed the fact that the response of the street level LVPD was exactly the same as if they were unarmed. The LVPD made the case for disarming street level police.
1 bartink 2017-10-15
You asked why they have body armor and AR-15s in their cars. I showed you the event that preceded ARs in squad cars. I explained why they carry body armor.
Most departments that have swat won't have their regular cops perform a dynamic entry. They don't have the equipment and aren't trained for it.
1 BanMikePantsNow 2017-10-15
And if the North Hollywood bank shootout happened today, the result would be the same. The militarized street level police would evade the shooters and call for better equipped and trained SWAT officers. Thus, it makes perfect sense to demilitarize street level police if not disarm them completely.
1 bartink 2017-10-15
They cops shot back at those guys. What the fuck are you talking about? The shooters were hit many, many times. They were just covered in body armor.
That's a pretty shit thing to say when those police officers died trying to get them when they were completely outgunned.
1 lemonparty 2017-10-15
Two years into the Clinton assault weapons ban of 1994, working like a charm.
1 M46_2 2017-10-15
There it is. Was wondering how long it would take someone to bring up Clinton
1 BanMikePantsNow 2017-10-15
I was alluding to the conspiracy where the wealthy have gutted the Posse Comitatus Act by giving military grade equipment to toy soldiers. This shooting and others have clearly demonstrated that there is no reason for street level police to be armed whatsover.
1 K-StatedDarwinian 2017-10-15
Whatsoever? This ignores the need of residential response outside of a large scale attack. I'm not a police force apologist by any means, they need a complete overhaul in the oversight and accountability department. Having said that, I'm sure the victims of street or domestic crime feels very differently about having first response armed or not.
1 BanMikePantsNow 2017-10-15
Street level police should only be given radios and non-lethal weapons. If lethal force is required, they can radio for it.
1 LeBrons_Mom 2017-10-15
16 minutes is not reasonable and hotels and casinos have security teams that should have been there in minutes.
1 MKUltraSexy 2017-10-15
But the latest sync with police audio shows an officer on the 31st floor 8 minutes after shooting started. watch at 7:30 in this clip: https://youtu.be/RJsormyzCQY
1 eaglejm 2017-10-15
Before fridays presser things were suspicious now they confirmed it by their reaction to Thursday nights events. At presser we saw them claim the press conferences purposes is only to calm the public. He said they wanted help days ago now complains that too much info exists and its hard for them to deal with it but they chased 1000 leads. They unprovoked issued multiple wide statements. No one else was involved and we are not engaged in a conspiracy topping it all off with in a supposed attempt to clear the air no questions allowed. They knew a Campos question would come and they were not wanting to deal with that yet
1 EZ4u2ask 2017-10-15
More than one head shot reported on the ground, yet Paddock only managed to shoot security officer in the leg?
1 BanMikePantsNow 2017-10-15
Yep and they refuse to release the number of non-fatal gunshot victims. In fact, I have had several comments angrily brigaded for askng about it. The number of fatal/non-fatal gunshot injuries gives you an idea of the shooter's/shooters' accuracy.
1 MKUltraSexy 2017-10-15
According to the recent police scanner/vid sync, there was a police on 31st floor 8 minutes after shots started.
1 Turpekal_Thrizz 2017-10-15
police are cowards. we dont need police.
1 TotesMessenger 2017-10-15
I'm a bot, bleep , bloop . Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. ( Info / Contact )
1 ABritWithGoodTeeth 2017-10-15
So, these are the same people that you're worried are gunna steel all ur gunz?
1 BanMikePantsNow 2017-10-15
As the UK is the beta-test site for civil rights erosion, you are irrelevant.
1 stickdog99 2017-10-15
To stop protests against government and corporations, and corporate executives, of course.
1 Nogrim6 2017-10-15
because its easier to recruit knuckle heads who were unqualified to be in the army when they get to look like bad asses.
1 N0ttheCu1prit 2017-10-15
Yea no shit I've never heard of that.
1 gomer2566 2017-10-15
In some parts of the country yes. Mostly in the west to prevent watersheds from being damaged by everyone collecting water.