Am I wrong in thinking that war with NK was an eventuality?

0 2017-08-09 by CG28

Ok, so I'm gonna get some heat from this and I accept that off the hop. I know that the war economy is a thing, and I know that the US has been led into wars falsely for decades.

But...

NK has been saying that they're going to fuck up SK, Japan, USA, etc for a very very long time, and they've been working on developing the capabilities to carry out those threats for just as long. Doesn't it stand to reason that eventually they're going to develop something that will be effective at accomplishing what they say?

And wouldn't it be better to not sit around and wait while that happens?

Is it possible that Trump just so happens to be the guy sitting in the chair at the time that NK develops the weapons they need?

Do we want Seattle or Guam or Seoul or Japan to get taken off the board before we act?

ON the other side, we know that the MIC is a thing. The US economy is propped up by war, and always needs it boogeyman. IS it possible that I am being manipulated by media? (Yes).

What is the most solid piece of evidence we have that NK is able to carry out their threats? Have we seen any solid evidence?

Is NK just a ruse, meant to pop up in convenient times to distract from bigger issues?

49 comments

1 Terex80 2017-08-09

Well they have been testing numerous missiles and firing them into japanese waters

1 try_anal_sometime 2017-08-09

Do you think that the US has the capability to intercept or terminate a missile like that?

1 CG28 2017-08-09

Yes. For now.

1 z-a-z-a 2017-08-09

They could probably intercept the shitty ICBM's that NK has right now. MIRVs are a different story but I don't see NK advancing there any time soon.

1 spacelord_rasputin 2017-08-09

The US has deployed THAAD in the region, a system that has been proven successful in recent tests. However even with the recent news that NJ has supposedly miniaturized a nuclear warhead that could fit on such a missile, it is still unlikely that they could successfully deploy it. They have never demonstrated the ability to detonate a nuclear warhead outside of ideal, laboratory conditions, and there are indications that they have not perfected a reentry vehicle.

1 codaclouds 2017-08-09

you're wrong in thinking it's a real country that exists

1 ThePhoenixRises224 2017-08-09

Can you expand on this proclamation? I'm interpreting it as "North Korea is created in the same Hollywood backlot as the moon landing."

1 codaclouds 2017-08-09

close enough lol

1 ThePhoenixRises224 2017-08-09

Anything this side of Narnia that can support that?

1 codaclouds 2017-08-09

woe is he who argues with propaganda and indoctrination online

1 ThePhoenixRises224 2017-08-09

Haha you're claiming that North Korea, the stretch of land between the South Korean and Chinese border, which claims to have over 25 million people living in it, does not exist.

Burden of proof is on you right now, my friend.

1 codaclouds 2017-08-09

that chunk of land most likely exists

1 MindWarfare 2017-08-09

We go to war/disrupt countries that refuse to set up a rothschild controlled central bank.

https://deusnexus.wordpress.com/2017/01/26/rothschild-central-bank/

In the year of 2000 there were seven countries without a Rothschild owned or controlled Central Bank:

Afghanistan Iraq Sudan Libya Cuba North Korea Iran

...

The only countries left in 2011 without a Central Bank owned or controlled by the Rothschild Family are:

Cuba North Korea Iran

1 justice_reigns 2017-08-09

We're not doing anything because it's not a real threat. It's just one of the many tools that keep us bogged down in fear.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

Can you explain or justify any reason the U.S. should be "frightened," by tiny North Korea and why any citizen of this nation would fall for that nonsense?

1 CG28 2017-08-09

Oh hey look... it's America's familiar friend hubris... what could go wrong?

I just think it's pragmatic to deal with the issue before Seoul gets wiped off the map. Proactive instead of reactionary.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

Proactive? I think you mean Pre-Emptive and for what purpose?

1 CG28 2017-08-09

No I meant proactive.

The purpose would be to prevent something worse from happening by intervening before it had the chance to occur. Like NK bombing Seoul or Japan.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

How can you justify the idea that N. Korea is a threat to the U.S.A.?

1 CG28 2017-08-09

They're a threat to SK. SK is an economic ally. If SK gets bombed it negatively impacts the US. Pretty sure US has defense treaties, and foreign investments.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

They aren't threatening S.K. Trump is dick waving to elicit direct threats to the U.S.A.

1 CG28 2017-08-09

http://abcnews.go.com/International/north-korean-missile-test-year/story?id=46592733

11 ballistic missle tests this year. They're not testing them for nothing.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

Maybe Russia is providing them the materials to help distract from their control over the Trump adm and our sold out Republican Congress/

1 CG28 2017-08-09

I think you suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome, and I think that's causing you to view the facts of the situation with more bias than you should. It's dangerous.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

I think Trump is nothing but a mindless well manipulated tool, my big hate-fest is directed at the Tea Party leaders and organizations that placed him in the presidency.

1 CG28 2017-08-09

So you're not only letting your blind hate interrupt your logic, but you're also focusing your efforts in the wrong place. Impressive.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

No, I am simply not going to consider North Korea to be an existential or physical threat to the U.S.A.

1 CG28 2017-08-09

What you're proposing is logically inconsistent, especially if you allow them to develop weaponry while ignoring them. Eventually they will hit you, and your willful ignorance will put the blood the hands of people who share your ignorance.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

Why do you believe what you are told from the same people you call fake news?

1 CG28 2017-08-09

A balanced information intake, and consistency in North Korea's message.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

Who is not telling lies about Korea?

1 CG28 2017-08-09

http://abcnews.go.com/International/north-korean-missile-test-year/story?id=46592733

This is a decent article, which I've already posted, detailing NK's missle tests this year. You can cross reference the dates with other news organizations to see if they're completely accurate, if you'd like.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

Oh? and? does that justify all this sword rattling and war mongering scary dialog? And isn't that part of the MSM now referred to as fake news by Trump and company?

1 CG28 2017-08-09

Yes it does.

Can I ask you some questions now?

What does a nuclear capable NK look like to you?

Do you think it is impossible for NK to advance their rocket tech, even while constantly working at improving it?

At what point does NK deserve to be looked at as a threat to the USA and SK?

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

I don't worry about it as much as I worry about the fact that if we are already spending around $1 Trillion per year and NK is a threat, why do you think they are?

1 CG28 2017-08-09

Way to avoid my questions. Perhaps its something you should actually think about.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

I'll leave the shaking and trembling to you.

1 CG28 2017-08-09

and the thinking apparently.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

The difference between a healthy response to danger and a fearful reaction is called survival.

1 CG28 2017-08-09

So you'd rather fearfully react than be intelligently proactive... got it.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

No that seems to be what you are promoting, fearful reaction based on irrational emotional driven beliefs.

1 CG28 2017-08-09

You're ignoring the situation until it grows big enough that it needs to be dealt with. You aren't convinced it's a credible threat, and won't be until Seattle, Guam, Seoul or Tokyo are hit with a missile. The only way you will get involved with the threat is by reacting to a larger event.

I am not coming at this from a position of fear, but pragmatism. I am not scared he is developing weapons. I know he is developing weapons. I am not scared they will use them. I know they will use them. And we should deal with it now BEFORE we are forced to react to a situation that we don't control.

1 CG28 2017-08-09

This entire comment thread started because I said we should be proactive. WTF are you on? Do you seriously not know the difference between proactive (no not pre-emptive) and reactive?

You're ignoring the situation until it grows big enough that it needs to be dealt with. You aren't convinced it's a credible threat, and won't be until Seattle, Guam, Seoul or Tokyo are hit with a missile. The only way you will get involved with the threat is by reacting to a larger event.

I am not coming at this from a position of fear, but pragmatism. I am not scared he is developing weapons. I know he is developing weapons. I am not scared they will use them. I know they will use them. These are not "emotionally driven beliefs". They are facts, based in reality. And we should deal with it now BEFORE we are forced to react to a situation that we don't control.

The only thing that I'm scared of is the willful ignorance you're displaying. And you're still ignoring my questions.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

Fear is not a rational response.

1 CG28 2017-08-09

Lazy response.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

So far that is all you have offered, I should be afraid of tiny North Korea while supporting a trillion dollar yearly defense/intelligence budget we are told will protect us.

1 CG28 2017-08-09

You're lazy and can't address simple questions. Your can't support tour viewpoint.

1 spacelord_rasputin 2017-08-09

I'll repost what I said in a similar thread:

Yes, these are empty threats. The regime largely derives its power over its people by painting the US as a powerful and evil adversary. The rhetoric coming out of NK is more about rallying and controlling its own people than actually threatening the US.
Kims goal is to maintain his power and status at all costs. An unprovoked attack against the US would be an a-strategic move, as it would surely result in regime change through military intervention by the US and South Korea. Do not confuse Kim for someone who is irrational. Kim is rational but desperate. Imagine him as an escaped criminal who is holding a hostage in hopes of exchanging them for his freedom. Though his actions have been outrageous they have also been largely predictable.
North Koreas nuclear and chemical weapons cannot win them an offensive war, nor can their conventional weapons, and they are not going to start one. They are insurance against military intervention by the US and SK, and bargaining chips to be traded for aid or reduced sanctions.
The US will likely not intervene militarily (yet, anyway) for two reasons: 1.) US politicians and diplomats know these threats are empty and serious offensive action by NK is a-strategic. 2.) China would be deeply upset at the US gaining more strategic influence in the area by invading NK, and awakening the disastrous humanitarian obligation that reunification entails. This is why you see Trump and other politicians telling China to act on the matter.

1 Antifactist 2017-08-09

North Korea has less propaganda than America.

1 curiosity36 2017-08-09

Lindsey Graham: Trump “told me” he will bomb North Korea if it keeps testing missiles

“If thousands die, they’re going to die over there.”

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/8/1/16075198/trump-lindsey-graham-north-korea-war

Graham went even further later in the interview, saying war between the United States and North Korea was “inevitable” under this president unless North Korea stops testing intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs).

1 ThePhoenixRises224 2017-08-09

Haha you're claiming that North Korea, the stretch of land between the South Korean and Chinese border, which claims to have over 25 million people living in it, does not exist.

Burden of proof is on you right now, my friend.

1 CG28 2017-08-09

http://abcnews.go.com/International/north-korean-missile-test-year/story?id=46592733

11 ballistic missle tests this year. They're not testing them for nothing.

1 CG28 2017-08-09

So you're not only letting your blind hate interrupt your logic, but you're also focusing your efforts in the wrong place. Impressive.

1 OutragedOgre 2017-08-09

Oh? and? does that justify all this sword rattling and war mongering scary dialog? And isn't that part of the MSM now referred to as fake news by Trump and company?