Didn't some places get sued for this seeing as how the people get hit with fees and whatnot related to having and using the cards?

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/mcdonalds-worker-sues-franchise-paying-wages-debit-card/story?id=19420181

Yeah that's what I thought! Knew I didn't just pull that out of my ass.

Yes, there was a case about this in PA where the judge ruled that these cards were not a valid form of payment as they are neither cash nor check. So they went beyond just not being legal because of the fees to not being legal at all, at least in PA.

If they're not legal in PA. How can they still be issued somewhere else...or is it that they need to be sued again citing this case?

I think the former but I am not a lawyer.

A state court in PA would only have precedent in PA. And really, it would have to be a ruling by the PA Supreme Court to be binding across the whole state.

Nitpick: it would only be precedent in PA. And its precedential status doesn't really matter, it's that the PA court would only have jurisdiction in PA.

Like I said, that's just nitpicking. You're right on as to the substance, as you know.

Rulings need to be at the appellate level to form precedence.

Ahh. As many Norman Goldman Civic Lessons as I've heard it am still ignorant of many things

They're legal in PA now.

jesus h christ...

you know. whenever people talk about "revolution" no, no we musnt have a violent one! we need to peaceably assemble THAT will make the government and corporations listen!

one of these days we as a planet will be tired of being pushed around by the handful of oligarchs and tell them to get fucked.

ive had enough of kowtowing

Good, keep that fire.

But remember 'you never win fighting the current system, you win by creating the new system... and letting the old one fade to dust'. Paraphrasing Buckminster Fuller.

Digital Democracy, then we can staunch them. Otherwise we just end up following new rulers and being surprised when we're fucked in 3 generations.

Shortly thereafter they changed the state law in PA to allow payment by debit card.

https://thinkprogress.org/after-ruling-that-mcdonalds-can-t-pay-workers-in-bank-cards-the-bank-pays-up-79e8661e1d95/

“Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants – but debt is the money of slaves." - Norm Franz

what about Bitcoins? :)

For Autists.

Autists with 25% more in the bank since last month ;)

I'm only hating because I'm jealous.. I had 1 btc. And I lost it on a bricked phone

Depending on how 'bricked' it is, that could be recoverable.

For sure it was recoverable... But my mom who is a hoarder and doesn't throw anything out decided to throw this nexus 5 broken phone in the garbage..yup.

This is Gentlemen

A form of value for which no nation backs/guarantees? It can literally disappear overnight and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

thank God there is no nation or bank involved, that is the reason that 20 years from now the prosperity in the world will be great

check this video to really understand bitcoin: https://youtu.be/bBC-nXj3Ng4

CASH is king. Banks are for slaves.

Dont forget bitcoin for the autists.

The same people who cribbed that fiat currency is backed by nothing are now buying currencies that reside on a computer network in the form of 1s and 0s.

Nobody sees the problem?

While bitcoin may be better than fiat currency because it cannot be directly manipulated by govts, it's still disconcerting. Maybe that's why I like real estate: I can visit a pile of bricks and cement, and even get money from people who want to live there.

You never really own land or the house on it; stop paying taxes on it and see what happens.

You never really own land or the house on it; stop paying taxes on it and see what happens.

That to me is as silly as saying one never really owns a company, just a small ownership of it (stocks), or, one never really holds currency (just an IOU from the Treasury), one never owns a car because they can't stop paying auto insurance on it, and on it goes.

Usually these things charge the poor people to use the cards, which means they violate minimum wage laws, because their net pay is less than their nominal pay of minimum wage.

A lot of places charge people to cash a check. A check is also not paper money.

I'm wondering if the niece chose the card instead of check or direct deposit. I've been given the option in the past but never took it.

Potentially not given the option. I couldn't set up DD until my second pay day at an old job and the card was the only option. With a 5 dollar fee if you don't use it every month.

The way it generally works is if you keep a balance of less than $1000 on the card, it will charge you a monthly fee, usually like 4.95 or something like that. At least this is how the greendot-based ones operate.

If my employer offers me a payroll card, do I have to accept it?

Answer: No. Your employer can’t require you to receive your wages on a payroll card. Your employer has to offer you at least one alternative.

CFPB Source

Most likely the niece was offered the choice of check or card and chose the card because she didn't have a bank account. Her choice. Not exactly a conspiracy on McDonald's part.

I worked at Olive Garden for a few days in 2011 (there were numerous reasons why I didn't last longer, I'd been a server for years and OG, not sure if its the whole company or just that one in particular, was weirdly cultish and creepy) and this was how employees were paid. I imagine tips were still cash, but the actual paycheck was on a debit card.

I know some larger restaurant companies are doing this. I was told while working for one it is to save costs on mail paper checks an since everything is digital now all w-2's an tax information is available on a workplace portal. You can opt out of the employee card itself and just have them direct deposit to your own bank account.

Used to manage a mcdonalds when this started. It's because a lot of their workers didn't have bank accounts themselves. To use the card mcdonalds gave them, they had to pay fees. Basically, any time they wanted to use their money, they had to pay whoever was handling the transactions.

After explaining the concept of "company money" to some of the people under me, I literally walked them to the bank across the street after their shift to get them a bank account.

We need more caring people like you in this world.

Thanks :)... my biggest pet peeve with it was that it forced the people either into a bank or (further) into servitude to their employer.

Great point. You choose between two evils basically. And either way the banks get their shekels from you somehow. Can he employees request cash?

They already pay taxes and other shit taken out of the check, then to cash it is another tax from the bank. This shit is ridiculous.

No real employer will pay cash anymore, with tax record rules as strict as they are.

Read the list of fees and understand the fees can change at any time. Those cards are basically a scam, but it's scary to think they could be the new norm.

In Canada, most of the do-it-yourself checkouts at the grocery store only accept card (no cash). Now there is a tap card for even faster buying. Cash is being warred against, and the speed of the war is increasing.

It's cheaper to process card payments vs cash deposits in banks. It's now cheaper for businesses to go all in on cards.

Here is a good article on the subject, http://money.visualcapitalist.com/global-war-on-cash/

I could probably find a way better article, that focuses on how the war on cash will ensure the survival of the central bank, which are as much the enemy of common people as Cancer, but I will wait and see if and how much you try-hard to defend them.

Thanks I'll give it a read tonight

Cool, here is a better one (though the one above has pictures), https://schiffgold.com/key-gold-news/central-banks-would-love-to-abolish-cash/

I gave them both a read as they are short.

Good reads, as they state a lot of issues that people seem to ignore. No new info for myself, but worth saving and showing others, thanks!

Re my OP. I'm referring to the swift manor they are making/pushing businesses to adjust to cashless systems. It's a simple and effective plan. I estimate that cash will be hard to find in 5 years. The game changer will be mobile to mobile NFC payments, once that takes off and the general public use it, we can wave goodbye to money!

Canada made an app like that called MintChip. It launched last year. Free phone to phone transactions for all! http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mintchip-digital-money-1.3645334

Coming quicker than expected 😡

I am also frustrated by this, and that app from Canada was launched last summer :/

my bank where I live doesn't even handle actual money anymore "because it costs too much" , W T F

Yeah, it's common now. I hate having money in the bank. I feel uneasy knowing it can be devalued at the press of a button!

I spend everything, and money I do save I put into properties. It's not secure, but at least it's a real item. Sure, the housing market can drop, but it still has a value of being shelter. So it will always be worth something. £200,000 in my account today will not be able to buy the same goods in 2 years time... that's wrong on a lot of levels. Where as a house will always be a house...

??? It's free to deposit cash.

In the UK you will be charged for paying cash into a business account. Personal is free, for now...

I've seen jobs that use those here, most people just go direct deposit instead.

I've never seen a job where you're forced to use just that card, they're usually temporary until DD kicks in.

Could be worse, it could be a microchip... that'll be the next thing.

Amazon uses the same thing through ADP.

This just cuts costs for mcdicks.

Just like the self serve digital kiosk in the front enterance of McDonald's. Went there today for the first time in years and was greeted by this self checkout touch screen so I could do the work myself, for free!!

Youre welcome McDonald's! Glad I could help you save a buck while you RAISE the cost of your food and charge service fees to your employees!

What a shithole.

You still went there and that's what matters.

Sure, if they value my non-repeat customer status. I went there for a muffin and coffee on my way out of town and probably won't be back to a McDonald's for another 10 years.

Sure...

I worked at a Ross as my first High School job, they did the same thing because they don't do checks. Everything is digital for ease. She can go to HR or whatever and user her own bank. Atleast this was the case for me. I'm going to assume it's the same for her seeing as my friend worked at McDonald's and had direct deposit to Chase.

She can take money out of the ATM? So, she can hold it in her hand? I'm confused, what are you trying to say?

Those fees tho

She gets paid say.... $400 dollar check. Goes to take it out. Can only take out $380 cuz of a fee that says to the bank, Handlers fee. Effectively making her work for less than minimum wage.

When I worked at Gamestop it was the same. But normally it's an option for people that don't have bank accounts. You can apply for direct deposit. Or paper checks if you want to wait a week for it to come in the mail.

tell her to get a bank account and use direct deposit. what's the issue here.

Sounds grim! In the meantime, she should get a bank account and direct deposit.

It's already happening in Nordic countries.

Prescient Typo

debt card

lots of places do this..

that doesn't mean it's ok, these things charge you for transactions over a certain number a month, as well as other fees that eat into low paying workers wages quickly. Some states have already had legislation aimed at stopping this practice, not sure if any passed though. This is a cost saving device used by large corporations to offload the payroll fees they would normally pay to their own workers......

I got that at sonic too, it was bullshit

is it legal for them to force her to accept payment by debit card? the terms on them are bad.

It probably auto tips at restaurants too. and has a non-use fee. Or not used enough fee. Or both.

It probably auto tips at restaurants too

Is this a thing?

This is very much a thing with ADP preload cards.

This is pretty commonplace these days.

It's a debit card , in other words she can only use it as long as their is positive balance (don't believe they have overdraft account) it's common in Europe where pay cheques are no longer in use.

In other words, they give her a bank account, a card so she can withdraw cash from her account, make purchases with said card, and of course receive her salary. A bank statement can also serve as proof of income, when necessary.

This kinda reminds me of back at the turn of the 1900s when mining companies would pay in [company name] bucks, and then you could only spend that money at the company store.

McDonald's does direct deposit only. If a child under 18 does not yet have an account they get a debit card.

Once I get my check I clear my card (withdraw), so no big problems there. I wouldnt consider direct deposit or prepaids the devil but more like a mob middle-man scheme model where we get hired, work, and get paid digitally through bank cartels.

Something similar happened at my school with student loan disbursements about 5 years ago. They signed everyone up for debit cards with a bank and charged us fees to withdraw and fees for not maintaining a high enough account balance. They claimed we would "get our disbursements faster" so it is worth it.

Needless to say, the bank was skimming fees off the top of student loan disbursements and everyone was pissed.

That's what capitalism does when there is no longer any check on its rapacity.

Traditionally, minimum wagers with no bank account would waste their money going to those check-cashing places instead.

Tell her to buy Bitcoin with it, she'll be fine. :)

I work in the food industry (am a chef) and from my experience this is common. Not sure what any other fields are doing.

My current management are trying to implement this as well.

Starbucks does this too. She can most likely set up direct deposit into her own checking, but as soon as she was hired she was probably told if she didnt give them her dda and routing number by a certain date pY is issued on the card. Have her set up autopay right away.

I waited tables and got my paycheck on a card like this. I only made 0-3 dollars a paycheck so it didn't really affect me, but it costed me like 3 dollars to use an ATM and almost nobody accepted it.

They do this because a lot of low income people don't have bank accounts. I have managed to evade this bullshit because my mother got me a bank account when I was like 8 or 16 or something. If you don't have a bank account, you're losing like 10% to whatever institution cashes it for you. And then a lot of banks will fine you if you don't keep a minimum balance in your account, which is typically hard to do if you work fast food or retail.

I worked at an Applebee's back in the early 2000's that switched to this. We were given no alternative. It was bullshit. Had to pay fees to pull my pay out of ATMs.

Why do they want to do this?

Is it to cut check printing costs?

Are they in league with the bankers for the fees?

A DEBT Card or a DEBIT Card? Is there such a thing as a Debt Card? Oh right, there is! They're just called Credit Cards!

The way around it is to sign up for direct deposit. Many companies these days give you your check on a debit card if you aren't willing to sign up for direct deposit. A way for them not to issue any paper checks.

You can choose direct deposit to your own account to avoid all the fees and such associated with use of their cards. They don't "force" you to use the pay card. Pretty much everywhere from Walmart to Whole Foods does it this way.

Thanks :)... my biggest pet peeve with it was that it forced the people either into a bank or (further) into servitude to their employer.

what about Bitcoins? :)

Sure, if they value my non-repeat customer status. I went there for a muffin and coffee on my way out of town and probably won't be back to a McDonald's for another 10 years.

CASH is king. Banks are for slaves.

That to me is as silly as saying one never really owns a company, just a small ownership of it (stocks), or, one never really holds currency (just an IOU from the Treasury), one never owns a car because they can't stop paying auto insurance on it, and on it goes.