Jesus fought against the corrupt merchants and also his teaching were specifically made to resist their influence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogomilism He became a huge danger and was hunted and killed.

Wikipedia says bogomilism arose several hundred years after Christ.

Really interesting article though. Never heard of them before.

A lot of people think Bogomilism is a lot closer to Jesus real teachings, than Catholic Christianism.

I can dig it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

I Dig how you Roll, Eagle. God Bless ya!

And sounds like what Christ actually taught.

I don't recall what passage it is, but I believe Paul refers to the body as a temple in one of his epistles as well.

a lot of propaganda was used against them, saying they were gay, that is where the term "bugger" comes from.

Im under the impression that Catholocism is Christian in name only. Have you seen where the pope sits? Totally demonic, and the building is literally shaped like a serpent. Seems like they are satanist/luciferian.

jesus was a zealot

Well I'm a big ol' heretic so we probably won't see eye to eye here but I don't think the [synoptic] gospels can reliably be dated that far back. As far as I know the oldest verified fragment of canonical New Testament text was from around 150. Marcion is reported by Tertulian to be teaching his "gnostic" views around that same time.

Aside from that there is kind of a thread of protognostic thought that goes back before Christ into Judaism and other faiths.

dead sea scrolls are highly censored because they're actually from the time of jesus and show what actually happened.

The temples and priests were part of government in them days. You had a king and the church/priests would be like the senate.

doesn't make it ok. try to shake off the brainwashing that is religion.

The cooperations nowadays are the priests of the yesterday. Cooperations had basically became religions in nowaday's society, that "organized religion" is now just a cooperate branch.

This is all assuming Jesus actually lived. Also, nobody wrote about him while he supposedly lived, which is very odd. Any accounts of him were written decades after his crucifixion would have been.

With that said, Rome was in charge back then, and Rome is in charge now.

Wikipedia is run by aholes and lies in that. people in religious acadamia don't consider the Christ myth theory cuz if it's true they'd be out of a job, by definition. but yeah there's no proof he existed. it's likely he's based on the righteous teacher.

I read behold a pale horse!

The gospel of John was an eyewitness account.

Please read below the state of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Now where do you think most of the important religious documents were kept?

Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans, along with who knows how many important historical documents.

Read below of the eyewitness account of what was left of Jerusalem. Josephus had acted as a mediator for the Romans and, when negotiations failed, witnessed the siege and aftermath. He wrote:

Now as soon as the army had no more people to slay or to plunder, because there remained none to be the objects of their fury (for they would not have spared any, had there remained any other work to be done), [Titus] Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and Temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as they were of the greatest eminence; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne; and so much of the wall enclosed the city on the west side. This wall was spared, in order to afford a camp for such as were to lie in garrison [in the Upper City], as were the towers [the three forts] also spared, in order to demonstrate to posterity what kind of city it was, and how well fortified, which the Roman valor had subdued; but for all the rest of the wall [surrounding Jerusalem], it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it [Jerusalem] had ever been inhabited. This was the end which Jerusalem came to by the madness of those that were for innovations; a city otherwise of great magnificence, and of mighty fame among all mankind.[2] And truly, the very view itself was a melancholy thing; for those places which were adorned with trees and pleasant gardens, were now become desolate country every way, and its trees were all cut down. Nor could any foreigner that had formerly seen Judaea and the most beautiful suburbs of the city, and now saw it as a desert, but lament and mourn sadly at so great a change. For the war had laid all signs of beauty quite waste. Nor had anyone who had known the place before, had come on a sudden to it now, would he have known it again. But though he [a foreigner] were at the city itself, yet would he have inquired for it.[3] source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siegeof_Jerusalem%28AD_70%29

Pontius Pilate? Tiberius Ceaser?

they existed.

The gospel of John was an eyewitness account.

Please read below the state of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Now where do you think most of the important religious documents were kept?

Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans, along with who knows how many important historical documents.

Read below of the eyewitness account of what was left of Jerusalem.

Josephus had acted as a mediator for the Romans and, when negotiations failed, witnessed the siege and aftermath. He wrote:

Now as soon as the army had no more people to slay or to plunder, because there remained none to be the objects of their fury (for they would not have spared any, had there remained any other work to be done), [Titus] Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and Temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as they were of the greatest eminence; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne; and so much of the wall enclosed the city on the west side. This wall was spared, in order to afford a camp for such as were to lie in garrison [in the Upper City], as were the towers [the three forts] also spared, in order to demonstrate to posterity what kind of city it was, and how well fortified, which the Roman valor had subdued; but for all the rest of the wall [surrounding Jerusalem], it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it [Jerusalem] had ever been inhabited. This was the end which Jerusalem came to by the madness of those that were for innovations; a city otherwise of great magnificence, and of mighty fame among all mankind.[2] And truly, the very view itself was a melancholy thing; for those places which were adorned with trees and pleasant gardens, were now become desolate country every way, and its trees were all cut down. Nor could any foreigner that had formerly seen Judaea and the most beautiful suburbs of the city, and now saw it as a desert, but lament and mourn sadly at so great a change. For the war had laid all signs of beauty quite waste. Nor had anyone who had known the place before, had come on a sudden to it now, would he have known it again. But though he [a foreigner] were at the city itself, yet would he have inquired for it.[3] source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siegeof_Jerusalem%28AD_70%29

I highly recommend https://www.amazon.com/ZEALOT-Life-Times-Jesus-Nazareth/dp/140006922X

Writen by a muslim. Ye no bias there att all

Everyone has bias. If you are going to limit your intake of knowledge to sources that fit your own predetermined bias than you will be ignorant for the rest of your life.

Reza Aslan also wrote a book on Islam that has made him a wanted man with a price on his head. He is a scholar first, Muslim second (or more likely 17th).

He is one of the foremost bible scholars on the planet. Not his fault that he was born to a Muslim family.

"One of foremost bible scholars" there goes all your credability

he was raised with no religiom by muslim parents who didn't believe in it. then came to America. He got into Christianity as a teen. Later became a religious scholar and learned about all religions. Everything in the book is backed up with sources.

Are any of the sources the Bible?

course not

Nothing is backed up by serious validated sources. Nothing!!! The hole book is about that Jesus is just a prophet. Same story just as in Quran!!! Why do you thin that is??

um nope. try actually reading.

You might be surprised to know Muslims acknowledge Jesus, although to them him was only a prophet

Hehehe not suprised at all and u dont acknowledge shit. He was just a prophet?? A prophet that allah had to trick people into thinkin he was dead. See we christians know who the father of lies is. Do tou?? Trick the people into think. What God tricks people???????? We all know who

Oh boy. Dont forget to drink some water

yes me to.

Thank you for this! It made my morning.

Haha thanks

For those who enjoy Philosophy, you can examine the use of "God" in the way Jesus means vs previously in the Old Testament. Likewise, when you think 'priests', you can think of those that worshiped Old Testament "God".

When Jesus speaks of God, he refers to Truth, Wisdom, and Knowledge, or the everlasting principles that govern all things and the universe itself. Thus, his commandments can be rephrased to: "Love Knowledge, and Love thy Neighbor." Which I find to be an exceedingly wise statement, regarding which basic beliefs are required to organize society without a central human authority.

Now here's where it gets fun. Now review "God" usage of the Old Testament and compare him to a Man, King, or government. God of the old testament literally fucked your wife. He also was very bashful regarding the size of his dick or naked body. God also liked it when you brought him a bunch of little baby animals to slaughter, but was less accepting of vegetables. God hated vegetables so much, he made farmers 'plagued for eternity'.

God also liked it when you pay him money. And if you don't pay him money, he burns down your village. And if burns down your village, that means you were bad people, each and every one, and God knew it.

Does that sound more like a government, or a belief?

Thus what Jesus was killed for was showing scattered persons how to commune together and establish intellectual, industrial, and fraternal corporations, and how to rethink society and reform society. Jesus was nothing short of a revolutionary, same as Benjamin Franklin or Socrates.

One last teaching before I conclude. There is two parables that are often misunderstood. In one parable, five thousand gather for weeks and Jesus fed them with ' 5 loaves and 2 fish '. This is misinterpreted to mean "Jesus is magic". If you read the passage, the meaning is clear. Jesus scoffs at Phillip who suggests it takes '6 months of wages' to buy so much food. Instead, Jesus walks around asking for everyone to contribute and share what they have, and the leftovers become far in excess of initial 'investment'. Thus large groups could sustain themselves not through working for Dollars, but through working for each other.

The second parable is the one in which Jesus writes down the 'sins' of the town people to prevent the stoning of a women. Again, this is taught as magic. However, the intent was to demostrate the dangers of absolute justice for temporal actions. As in, if all persons were stoned and killed for all 'crimes' they committed, there would be none left, and likewise this does nothing to alleviate the harm. Thus, when a person is killed or sent to jail, not only are they punished but society as well by losing their contribution.

If you'd like to study modern day spiritual and societal philosophy, I highly recommend Benjamin Franklin's Autobiography and Almanac, Thomas Paine's Rights of Man, Malcolm X Speeches, and Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf. With those texts, and when combined with the wisdom of the bible, patterns begin to emerge.

Which is to say the global unification of man is a struggle that has been on going for millennia, while hidden forces seek to corrupt knowledge and sow dissent.

Where as Thomas Paine thought of them as 'foreign kings' and 'foreign press', where as Hitler thought of them as the 'Jewish international bankers' and 'Jewish press', where as Malcolm X thought of them as 'White International bankers' and 'White press', Jesus and Franklin thought of them as collective ignorance, remedied through daily sacrifice and lifelong study.

Not sure Jesus talked about wisdom because that's the same line the serpent in the garden used. To open your eyes to the truth and be one with knowledge just like god. Do you have any verses that mention that? I'm just getting into the Bible and this is one of the first things genesis chapters 1-11 talk about

That is the "old god" vs "new god". Essentially that is Old Testament thinking, which Jesus was rejecting. Everything Jesus did was spreading Wisdom! It's unfortunate when that direct contradiction gets missed.

If you actually are interested in the bible, read where the priest try to make Jesus define God. They constantly try to personify god, which is akin to the personified god of the old testament, or Idol Worship. The God of Jesus is the same as the God of Socrates, Aristotle, and Franklin, which is to say knowledge or shared knowledge, and not "Bob".

Don't be deceived, God will not be mocked. The Divine source, is NOT the Promethian Fire. The LOGOS is NOT the intellect that loves itself.

Lucifer is NOT Christ.

It's all bullshit anyway, why are you people wasting time on this. Jesus was basically Buddha-lite. Some nice socialist views, inherited from the Buddha. Done.

Except the fact that Jesus is not a Socialist. He was in fact, an Anarchist who adhere to non-agression principle.

NAP except toward the money changers and priests

haha, no.

Come on bro. Point it out, I'll debunk it. :)

Thanks for your answer

The knowledge imparted by the tree was the knowledge of good and evil. To put it in a nutshell, Satan tempted humans with "you will be like gods" but the knowledge wasn't useful. It was the knowledge of guilt. There was no conviction before they took that fruit. They were innocent of knowing that, for example - a naked body was immodest.

Wisdom, on the other hand, would have forgone the fruit because the knowledge of Satan was of no use but had mankind waited in obedience, God would have raised his children up to know all things truly edifying and enlightening - all things but the knowledge of sin.

It's funny, how people can twist and contort themselves, to make the Bible mean... whatever they want it to mean.

Why don't you just read it, and look for what it actually says, instead of imposing your own rationalizations and preconceptions upon it? Your little story is nonsensical, and has literally nothing to do with the stories as they're written. It's the imaginings of a person who is really desperately trying to cling to his preconception of who God is.

It's funny, how people can twist and contort themselves, to make the Bible mean... whatever they want it to mean.

Why don't you just read it, and look for what it actually says, instead of imposing your own rationalizations and preconceptions upon it? Your little story is nonsensical, and has literally nothing to do with the stories as they're written. It's the imaginings of a person who is really desperately trying to cling to his preconception of who God is.

The tree of knowledge is knowledge of the human orgasm. Without it you would understand god more clearly.

knowledge of the human orgasm.. ? Pardon?

https://youtu.be/USE7NoXXjaU

Oh I see. So the semantics of wisdom versus knowledge are important differences

No semantics. Just definitions. "da'ath" and "chokmah" are not the same words.

hey man, listen. The whole conspiracy scene, everyone in it is waaaay deceived about what the Bible says and what it means. Some are more proactive than others in making deceptive claims, but virtually every person here who claims to be describing what Jesus or the Bible says is deceiving in one way or another. Do not trust these people! Learn for yourself, seek out Christians and Christian sources if you want clarifications, use discernment carefully and as best as you can. Seriously man, it's dangerous out here. Cheers

Right on, thanks for the response. john is a favorite but what about Paul? I do study independently and try to see who here has been spreading a perversion but I'm still a learner. Which is why I responded but looks like I was getting old and New Testament god mixed up.

New Testament God is the same as the Old, absolutely. But it is necessary to understand Jesus as well as possible in order to recognize this, Old Testament God after all was understood exceedingly poorly by the ancient Israelites who worshipped him, so poorly in fact that they killed his Christ. Jesus and his apostles know this and provide much needed context, this is why I say get equipped with the New Testament first. With knowedge of Jesus the presence of Jesus in the Old Testament is everywhere, but without that context you're gonna miss a lot. (You, me, anyone.)

re: Paul, he wrote about half of the books in the NT, and he's coming from the same place as Christ. Some deniers will say Paul was a liar, or an inventer of new doctrine, but for real, he's as legit as it gets, he and Jesus are getting at the same thing, and Paul's explication is extremely valuable.

Thanks again for the detailed response!

Jesus really is the Truth. I've been reading some ridiculous stuff in this thread, a lot of misinterpreted scripture, or no scriptural backing at all. Keep reading but read the Gospels first.

Why do you say read the gospels? Is it because 1 Cor. 15: 1-4 says it's the only way to be saved in the age after the death of Christ?

Because it's the salvation message

The OT God bans interest-bearing loans right off the bat. But then seems to change his mind when Joseph does it to Egypt.

I suppose this meant usury is OK to do to the Gentiles, but not the Chosen.

G-d made the Gentiles because somebody has to pay retail.

Missed this one, where is the scripture stating Joseph practiced usury in Egypt.

When I first read Mein Kampf, I was pretty shocked at how much I agreed with what was being said... It is not the writings of a raging lunatic. He understood a lot, but he should have focused more on the international bankers, the Illuminati. Now we have to deal with them.

That being said, they fear Nationalism and they do not want us to organize. We are much harder to control that way.

Mein Kampf is a great read, if you want to understand the emotional damage inflicted by terrible rulers sustained by the intelligent.

Adolf was a very kin and intelligent individual, that well understood military sacrifice, devotion to people, and stability of state. Unfortunately, he made a few mistakes.

One was a rejection of intellectualism. Though he is partly right, this is likely why his incorrect view points went so long uncorrected. Another was the notion that the enemy was without, to be defeated. This is incorrect. The 'globe' is the 'enemy' and to defeat them you advance your society beyond the average. Essentially the enemy is poverty, and is defeated through hard work and study, not by killing rich people. Another mistake he makes is suggesting that 'securing farmland is paramount'. This was just another bit of ignorance. Technology is far more valuable than farmland. And lastly, he took a strong position toward 'no half measures'. This is also incorrect. Rather than 'destroy' the system that comes before, you always build on top. Franklin, Jefferson, Adams, Paine, etc. expressed this concept with enthusiasm. The notion was not to 'rebel against the British' but to improve the form of government, and lower taxes. The colonists would have continued paying the king taxes to avoid a war, so long as the king did not stop the advancement of society, but that conception was rejected. When you adopt policies as pure absolutes, you promote perpetual war and complete destruction of the past, rather than building and improving upon it (though conflict is often inevitable).

Adolf was correct when he suggested 'economic competition'. Unfortunately he dismissed this notion without due consideration, as it would have corrected all his other faults in logic as well.

If you listen to the speeches of Malcolm X, he progresses along very similar lines. However, by this time plane travel had been invented, and Malcolm X flew to Israel and Saudi Arabia, and upon returning dropped his hatred of the 'white man' and replaced it with 'the secret powers' and such, and began discussion of building up communities rather than opposing others.

Fred Hampton carried this so far as that it might have caused a revolution, had he been allowed to live, with far more advanced American cities than we have today.

Thomas Paine takes a similar path, but Benjamin Franklin discovered the solution when he was around 14 yrs old, and worked his entire life to secure the betterment of mankind for long after his death. He was too wise to believe it would last, but he left clues within his quips and instruction manuals that he hoped would survive long enough to guide future generations.

But are we too busy to listen? We shall see.

I read Mein Kampf and Hitler seems to "ramble" through parts of the book. When he talks about the unions he jumps around from point to point with very little continuity. But when he talks about the Jews, his writing is very intelligent and he presents his case in a very professional manner as an educated person who is not a obsessive neurotic. I asked a scholar friend of mine who has studied Hitler extensively why Hitler's writings about the Jews in Mein Kamp are so superior in style and in content compared to other parts of the book and he said it was because Hitler had plagiarized from other sources. Now, I am not saying that Hitler always "rambled" in his writings, because there are short essays and letters he wrote that were very, very well written. But, to me, Mein Kamp is a difficult read.

Great thoughts, you've given me a new perspective on some things. Do you think that no matter what happened, Hitler and Germany were doomed as soon as the Nazis dropped the debt-backed currency for the Reich Marks?

Have you read any of Gottfried Feder's publications regarding Nazi economics?

Skimmed it.

Regarding 'debt backed currency' , it's not really feasible to drop it. Money is effectively the accumulation of war victories. Dropping or making new money (like America did) effectively puts you at war with all previously rich people... so ya (America honored British riches).

The stuff about schools, etc, is good.

Fighting 'global banking' isn't good either imo. It's ultimately segrationist. It's great so long as you are in a closed economy, but in the globe you must accept or propose a new system. Denying trade is questionable, which you do when you deny foreign investment.

His policies only sound good from one side, not both.

That said, I understand the concerns. International finance is largely a ponzi which Germany was losing.

Well said.

Rather than 'destroy' the system that comes before, you always build on top

This is a really good point. I personally believe that this is the way to defeat the elites. After all, there was a time where the only meaningful measure of wealth/power was how much land you owned. The reason that changed wasn't because people took away all their land but rather they built up a new way of taking wealth and eventually rose above the old.

Now those people are sitting at the top and just like with the landowning nobility there may be no way to attack their system directly (because they control all of it). So the only thing to do is to create something new. That's the only way to defy them.

no.

I am very interested in the application of Mein Kampf in this context, and impressed you listed it as it is a very controversial text.

The second parable is the one in which Jesus writes down the 'sins' of the town people to prevent the stoning of a women.

Uh, that's not written in the bible.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A1-11&version=NLT

They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.

Nowhere does it say that Jesus was writing down their sins. It just says he was writing. Many people make an assumption that he was...but that's all it is. An assumption. It is not written in the bible.

Love is a verb. Jesus (who claims to be fully God and fully man) says that whatever you do for His people you do for Him. You can love God by following his commandments and examples. God is the source of wisdom and knowledge, and he says they are more valuable than gold or silver.

When Jesus was asked to sum up the law he stated (and I paraphrase here): love God and love your neighbor. The common theme is that it involves relationships (the only thing that will survive this world.)

Do you really think you can have a relationship with knowledge? You know of Jesus, but you don't know Him. Your knowledge isn't a relationship. Be careful that when you sit before the judgement throne he doesn't say to you: Away from me, for I never knew you!

Love is a state of being.

How so?

Ha. That's deep and best self-actualized. I know that sounds like a copout, but it's the Truth. Mediation and psychedelics will help you on this journey. Only you can find the Truth.

So speak from your own experience. How, for you, is love a state of being?

There are two states of being: Love and Fear. All positive emotions go in the Love category, all negative in with Fear category. Joy, excitement, fulfillment, etc = Love. Resentment, jealously, envy, etc = Fear. Fear of acceptance, fear of survival, and the main one: fear of death. Love is acceptance. Love is gratitude. The point is, we have a choice. This is where mindfulness comes into play. We can choose to be negative or we can choose to be positive. Something we perceived as negative years ago, we can look back on with gratitude, once the lessons are learned from the experience. What changed? The situation or the mindset? Obviously, Tbe mindset. To take it a step further, everything is Love. War, death, suffering; all Love. Why? Because there are lesson in all of it and that's the point. It's only lost when we don't show gratitude for what we've learned. That's why it's important to take time to show gratitude, i.e., prayer/mediation. This releases the emotional trauma. If we don't show gratitude and forgiveness we get stuck on a wheel of karma, forever receiving hard lessons. When we face our Fears, we learn. When we run from them, we suffer. Fear is the illusion we buy into. It isn't real. It's only real when we give it our attention. All is Love. I could get into the physiological reason behind it, as well. Like I said: best self-actualized. This is life.

This is partially true (typical), but not all is Love, thats a crock of shit.

What about those who die in war never having known love, what is the lesson for them?

The ritually abused that commit suicide? Where is the Love lesson?

There are lessons in all of it if your eye is open to see it.

Look into the limbic system and purging.

So do we get to know him by way of a sexual encounter?

I've determined that when we truly orgasm. When both parties have held in their kundalini for each other and the dragon and chakrahs are fully alligned that you can have "soul sex". this leaves you both so beat, drained, tired and intoxicated that you can't move, you are hallucinating and in a childlike state of mind.

If that theory were true it would literally mean monogomy is a political tool to keep us from knowing all of god.

I agree with most of what you said but - the most pure sexual and human experience comes from dedicated monogamy.

favorite paraphrase from C.S. Lewis: "you can either believe Jesus was truly the Son of God or a raving lying lunatic; you cannot simply label him as a good philosopher or teacher."

He was such an amazing author. I love all the non-fiction that he wrote. Mere Christianity is one of my favorites :)

while hidden forces seek to corrupt knowledge and sow dissent.

this corrupting knowledge and sowing dissent, would this include typing up lengthy posts making false claim after false claim about Jesus and how he behaved, or no?

That's what I'm percieving. Everything ringdls false.

Thank you so so much!!! :)

As an ex catholic agnostic you had me hooked but Mein Kampf...? Can you elaborate just a little please?

Not like I call it 'required reading' but don't let a spammer fool ya, it has very little to do with Jews, maybe 5 pages of 160 in part 1. Adolf's primary hatred of Jews comes because he believes Jews to be racist.

Adolf has a strong military perspective toward society. It's good to know how military think, and the similarities between his problems and problems in 1776 America and elsewise is uncanny. His book is written in modern terms vs 'gazettes' etc.

Granted Adolf is violent. He felt the opposing politicians should be rounded up and forced into labor camps and their memory erased from history. And calls Jews smelly, but aside from that he replaces 'The Powers That Be' with 'And by that, I obviously mean Jews', but it's much less maniacal than most would imply.

It's really clear why the book was banned. Adolf was like Conspiracy 1.0 (his solutions were incorrect but the problems were the same).

When Jesus speaks of God, he refers to Truth, Wisdom, and Knowledge, or the everlasting principles that govern all things and the universe itself. Thus, his commandments can be rephrased to: "Love Knowledge, and Love thy Neighbor."

Where is this said in the Bible? He says God and Father, not Knowledge (Luke 10:27) The word also says Knowledge puffeth up. (1 Corinthians 8:1)

God of the old testament literally fucked your wife. He also was very bashful regarding the size of his dick or naked body. God also liked it when you brought him a bunch of little baby animals to slaughter, but was less accepting of vegetables. God hated vegetables so much, he made farmers 'plagued for eternity'.

What? The fall of man cursed the land due to Satan offering "Knowledge", tricking man to disobey Gods instruction (Genesis 3:5 - Genesis 3:19) God hates vegetables? He made them. (Genesis 1:29)

God also liked it when you pay him money. And if you don't pay him money, he burns down your village. And if he burns down your village, that means you were bad people, each and every one, and God knew it.<

Can you cite the scripture on this and how you interpreted?

Instead, Jesus walks around asking for everyone to contribute and share what they have, and the leftovers become far in excess of initial 'investment'. Thus large groups could sustain themselves not through working for Dollars, but through working for each other.<

(Show me how you interpreted the scripture into this? Jesus sat on the grass and instructed his disciples to give out the loaves and fish. He didnt walk around asking people to donate. Where is this scripturally based?

The second parable is the one in which Jesus writes down the 'sins' of the town people to prevent the stoning of a women.<

No he wrote something on the ground, doesnt mention what, stood up and said "He who is without sin cast the first stone.: Again, where is the scripture that says He wrote down the sins of the town?.

You know, I read all this and I walk away not feeling hope, not feeling strength. So where is the power in what you are saying? What would have been the point of all of what Jesus did if what you say is true (which it isnt). The Word isnt hard to understand, so why would it be made to be so misinterpreted into what you say it is saying?

Fascinating post, it should not be buried down here!

crucify

Except ours aren't "bankers."

The very notions the word bank implies ... entrust, vault, secure, save, protect, rely, etc. ... don't apply when a central bank is always there to correct lending mistakes at the expense of the currency. Literally the opposite of banking with money, our institutions are a system of central planning.

Did you know that a "judge's" bench in a court room is also called a bank?

I did not ... cool, thx ... did you know judges white wigs are supposed to resemble the effects of arsenic poisoning? Elite used to take in small doses to build up a tolerance, but it would make their hair white.

I only have guns and whips on my closet and I'm all out of guns..............Guess i'll be pistol whipping some bankers today.

Today at church, we will be handing out flogs. Don't be lazy, Christian Soldiers!

Where can I sign up?

Surely you mean hang the bourgeois

Same thing I said to my religious zealot mother. Jesus was a peace-loving, very wise man but the one thing that ruffled his feathers was the merchants/church/government (and these were one in the same back then) abusing the people, financially or otherwise.

I believe, over the course of time, his life story and teachings have been corrupted to focus more on "social" sins in order to keep "the abused" from focusing on one another rather than what merchants (corporations), the church (a type of corporation today), and the government are doing.

For example, the verse used from Leviticus (? - to lazy to double check before typing) against homosexuality is actually the story of Lot. At that time, gangs of men were invading homes and raping the men. When they came to Lot's, he begged them not to harm his sons and offered his daughter as a substitute.

WTF? Your son can't be gay but your daughter can be raped? Give me a f'ing break! That is NOT what Jesus would have been okay with. I know he wasn't born then but if they're going to use it like he was, they best be prepared to answer when questioned about it.

Spoiler: they can't- or at least anyone I've asked to date.

and they started circumcisions to get men to have less sex, spread less stds.

The cultvof Moloch was a shame to end

Actually the Levitical restriction on homosexuality is not in any way connected to the story of Lot which is in the book of Genesis. Leviticus 18:22 which is most often cited as the Old Testament restriction against homosexuality sits amongst many restrictions meant to separate "God's people" from those of surrounding nations and cultures.

I'm not addressing any of your other points but your perspective of the Levitical restriction of homosexuality is way off.

I stand corrected. It has been many years since I sat down and studied. As I grow older, I tend to cross things over. I'm going to go reread these portions. Thank you for taking the time to point it out in a civil manner. I certainly don't wish to spread disinformation.

That said, I would like to state for the record, I do feel the Bible is a manipulation tool. It's my personal opinion, however, and I don't anyone to sway anyone from their faith. All I want is truth.

Again, thank you. Now, I have some afternoon reading to do.

Eagle what are the odds of every holy book being written by the same group? Honest question it's a thought I've always had after watch a zitgeist doc where every religion has almost the same story, but they said it was because of astronomy.

it does make sense that's why they have the jesus resurrecting after 3 days mith, because the son appears to stay in one spot for 3 days then start rising. but other things in zeitgeist were false, mainly saying there were so many other gods that died and had 12 apostles and were resurrected after 3 days.

Why do you think he ended up getting those thing wrong?

probably embellished to make the documentary really interesting. if jesus's story was really the same as so many other deities and prophets then it'd be obvious jesus was a myth and didn't exist.

jesus was a zealot

"For example, the verse used from Leviticus (? - to lazy to double check before typing) against homosexuality is actually the story of Lot. At that time, gangs of men were invading homes and raping the men. When they came to Lot's, he begged them not to harm his sons and offered his daughter as a substitute."

The story of Lot is actually in Genesis. You're correct, though, if you're saying that the connection with the use of the word "Sodomy" and homosexuality is an error. Actual "sodomy" is attempted rape of angels, though they did appear to be men - the men who stayed with Lot and were nearly raped were angels. Lot's desperate move came from the fact that he must have imagined himself and his whole family roasting in hell at the idea of thugs raping God's messengers who had sheltered in his home.

Lot had no sons, however..

That's incredibly stupid. Sodomy most definitely meant homosexual sex. The fact that three of the men the people tried to rape were angels, not with standing.

guess who jesus's beloved disciple was

He probably wasn't born ever.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EDS00Pnhkqk

If Jesus was a real person, hard to know without archeological evidence, and considering that biblical sources don't count as historical, we can't know what he did even if he truly existed.

I agree with the purpose of your post, but using gospel as reference doesn't help at all.

LMAO, that's a nice speech, how many times a day you copy-paste it?

On the life of Jesus Christ? LMAO Come on man, give me a break, I don't follow your dogma, not everybody in the world does.

I was giving you an honest advice, you don't need to follow it.

give 1 piece of proof

You're conflating fringe with inaccurate. Historians will usually say Jesus probably existed but not Historians of the areas he supposedly was. So since there are more historians outside of specific areas OF COURSE you'd get more who'd just accept it. Nobody wrote about him while he was alive? No evidence of the resurrection let alone the crucifixion. Just interpilations with is a fancy theistic word for 'we made this shit up'.

So the real question is, did you go into the evidence with a conclusion already because you're supposed to let the evidence lead you to the conclusion not the other way around.

Can you give me a source where it says scholar consider the bible historical?

stop spamming that

He also gives no evidence for his claim that always nice.

Well of course there's no archeological evidence, the guy disappeared and went straight to heaven after he came back from the dead. Of course the biblical scholars aren't going to admit that they wasted their lives on some bullshit that most certainly isn't true. Magic isn't real, gods aren't real.

We don't determine people existed archaeologically by finding their body.

No shit.

Here are two Romans who wrote about Jesus.

Cornelius Tacitus was a Roman Historian who lived from 55-120AD. In 115 AD, P. Cornelius Tacitus wrote the following passage that refers to Jesus (called “Christus,” which means “The Messiah”) in book 15, chapter 44 of The Annals after a six-day fire burned much of Rome:

“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt >and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their >abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.” Despite the fact the clearly despised Christianity as a “mischievous superstition”, Tacitus no less confirms once again the existence of Jesus and His crucifixion on the cross, it also states Pontius Pilate as the procurator who oversaw the crucifixion again giving non-Biblical proof of Jesus’ existence as recorded in the Bible.

Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus , (61 AD – ca. 112 AD) : “better known as Pliny the Younger, was a lawyer, author, and magistrate of Ancient Rome. According to Wikipedia: “Pliny is known for his hundreds of surviving letters, which are an invaluable historical source for the time period. Many are addressed to reigning emperors or to notables such as the historian, Tacitus. Pliny himself was a notable figure, serving as an imperial magistrate under Trajan (reigned AD 98–117). Pliny was considered an honest and moderate man, consistent in his pursuit of suspected Christian members according to Roman law, and rose through a series of Imperial civil and military offices, the cursus honorum.” In his correspondence with the emperor Trajan (Epistulae X.96) he reported on his actions against the followers of Christ. He asks the Emperor for instructions dealing with Christians and explained that he forced Christians to curse Christ under painful torturous inquisition:

“They were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of a meal–but ordinary and innocent food.” So not only was Pliny aware of Jesus Christ, he also provides description of the activities of the early church. In a later writing he details persecution against Christians: “Even this practice, however, they had abandoned after the publication of my edict, by which, according to your orders, I had forbidden political associations. I therefore judged it so much more the necessary to extract the real truth, with the assistance of torture, from two female slaves, who were styled deaconesses: but I could discover nothing more than depraved and excessive superstition. In the meanwhile, the method I have observed towards those who have denounced to me as Christians is this: I interrogated them whether they were Christians; if they confessed it I repeated the question twice again, adding the threat of capital punishment; if they still persevered, I ordered them to be executed. For whatever the nature of their creed might be, I could at least feel not doubt that contumacy and inflexible obstinacy deserved chastisement. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.” So here we see that not only did Pliny not follow the Christian faith, he was torturing Christians and threatening death against them. And he even records that under threat of execution (just for believing in Jesus Christ as God) the early church members refused to deny their faith in Jesus.

Here are some historical writings about Jesus

Sextus Julius Africanus (c.160 – c.240) was a Christian traveller and historian of the late 2nd and early 3rd century AD. He is important chiefly because of his influence on Eusebius, on all the later writers of Church history among the Fathers, and on the whole Greek school of chroniclers Julius Africanus quotes the writings of Thallus, who was a first century non-Christian historian. In his Chronicles, Africanus quoting the historian Tallus, explains the reason for it being so dark during the day time on the day of crucifixion of Jesus Christ:

“An eclipse of the sun’ unreasonably, as it seems to me (unreasonably of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of the full moon, and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died.” Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18. Lucian of Samosate Lucian (Born 115 AD) was a well-known Greek satirist and traveling lecturer. More than eighty works bear his name. He mocked Christians in his writing, but at the same time provided evidence that Jesus really did exist: “He was second only to that one whom they still worship today, the man in Palestine who was crucified because he brought this new form of initiation into the world.” “Having convinced themselves that they are immortal and will live forever, the poor wretches despise death and most willingly give themselves to it. Moreover, that first lawgiver of theirs persuaded them that they are all brothers the moment they transgress and deny the Greek gods and begin worshiping that crucified sophist and living by his laws.” “They scorn all possessions without distinction and treat them as community property. They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time.” * Phlegon of Tralles * was a first century secular Greek historian born not long after the Crucifixion. He inadvertently dated the darkness at noon on the day of Crucifixion in his work, The Olympiades. Phlegon's greatest work was the writing of a history book, called The Olympiades. The Olympiades can be used as a useful means of establishing a time-line. We only have fragments left to us of this monumental work and quotations of it from other writers. One such quotation is as follows, "In the 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad, there was a great eclipse of the Sun, greater than had ever been known before, for at the sixth hour the day was changed into night, and the stars were seen in the heavens. An earthquake occurred in Bythinia and overthrew a great part of the city of Nicæa." *Africanus quoted a section of Phlegon's work *as follows: "During the time of Tiberius Cæsar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the Full Moon." Thallus (Greek: Θαλλός) was an early historian who wrote in Koine Greek. He wrote a three-volume history of the Mediterranean world from before the Trojan War to the 167th Olympiad, c. 112-109 BC. Most of his work, like the vast majority of ancient literature, has been lost, although some of his writings were quoted by Sextus Julius >Africanus in his History of the World: On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the passion of our Savior falls on the day before the passover; but an eclipse of the sun takes place only when the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun? Let opinion pass however; let it carry the majority with it; and let this portent of the world be deemed an eclipse of the sun, like others a portent only to the eye. Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth--manifestly that one of which we speak. But what has an eclipse in common with an earthquake, the rending rocks, and the resurrection of the dead, and so great a perturbation throughout the universe? Surely no such event as this is recorded for a long period edit:sources are the relevant Wikipedia pages on the authors.

Sorry, not interested in convert to christianity for the moment.

Don't wait too long never know when it is your time to go.

Because we have sinned we are born separated from God. Without intervention, we are ineligible for Heaven. This applies to the entire human race. You are not alone.

Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Romans 3:10 says, "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

Romans 6:23a "For the wages of sin is death;"

Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:"

There is no amount of good works we can do to save ourselves from being eternally separated from God.

Ephesians 2:8-9 say, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

To be separated from God forever, simply do nothing. To ignore or reject God's son is the only sin that can keep a person out of Heaven and the only alternative to Heaven is eternal torment in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:15, 2 Thes. 1:7-9).

John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

But there is good news!

There is a simple and free way to be reconciled with God made possible by God's only son Jesus. A blood sacrifice was needed to pay for your sins and Jesus was sent to become that sacrifice. He was nailed to a Roman cross to shed His blood in payment for your sin. Then three days after His death, He rose from the dead, validating once and for all His qualification to be our only Savior.

Placing your complete trust in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection is God's one and only means of reaching Heaven.

Jesus said (John 14:6), "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

John 3:16 & 17 are clear. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

The Bible clearly tells us how to be saved:

Romans 10:9-10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

This is a free gift from God because He loves you.

Romans 6:23b "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Romans 10:13 "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Are you ready to believe right now? If so, simply tell God what he asked you to confess. You might use a prayer similar to this one:

"God, I admit to you that I am a sinner and I know I cannot do anything to earn my way to Heaven. I truly believe that Jesus died on the cross, was buried and rose from the grave. I put my faith in His sacrifice to pay for my sin in full."

If you can't read a single sentence, what makes you think I would read all that? Religion has make you lose focus in reality.

Jesus himself was likely a Roman fabrication. Created by those he supposedly fought against. Chew on that with respect to modern day.

To what extent have you? I find the Flavian conspiracy of Jesus pretty compelling... I'm sure there are endless similar theories, but particularly the Flavians inventing him as basically a representation of their conquest doesn't seem to ridiculous to me.

Jesus was probably real, essentially an enlightened man, however he was killed by the Establishment. It was when he was killed that the Establishment decided to use him as a Martr to spread Religion and install order/control in his name, when the whole time they're against him, but abusing him to their advantage.

What the fuck?

Seriously, this has to be the strangest brigade yet.

Tell me about it.

This is the single strangest brigade yet.

Forget to log out before replying to yourself eh...

...and don't worry about deleting it.

Forgot to switch accounts there!

This is essentially what the HLI said, that Jesus was on the crossroad between the elite and the masses. He reached enlightenment outside of the mystery schools and and helped enlighten those around him through his teachings.

The story about Jesus being born from a Virgin woman is symbolic of reaching enlightenment outside of the mystery schools. Him dying on a cross is symbolic in the sense that he stood on the crossroad between the elite and the masses. All of these stories have double meaning, esoteric and exothermic essentially.

Makes sense.

u/EagleOfAmerica is probably going to chase me away whiping his mighty wings, but Ralph Ellis wrote some books about Jesus and claims that Jesus was actually a rich warrior King of Edessa:

"Why are so many of the famous biblical characters missing from the historical record? Thirty years ago, the intrepid and dogged researcher Ralph Ellis decided to find out. Does this biblical lacuna mean that both the Old and New Testaments are fictional, as many people have claimed? Or are we simply looking in the wrong locations or perhaps even the wrong eras?

... the historical Jesus-character was a king, just as the gospels claim, a valiant king with a large treasury and lofty ambitions to take over the Roman Empire. Which is why Jesus (Izas) was jailed alongside revolutionaries who had committed murder in the revolution. (Mk 15:7)

Perhaps readers can now see why the gospels were written in the manner they were. Rome did not appreciate revolts in its eastern realms, and sought to quell all thoughts of further unrest. So the martial monarch called King Jesus (Izas) of Edessa became known to the wider world as a pauper prince of peace, who happily paid his Roman taxes and turned the other cheek. The industrious Roman propaganda machine that Josephus Flavius had created, had worked like a charm."

However, when u/ClosedSociety404 introduced this point, he remarked that "the presenter [Ralph Ellis] isn't wrong for the most part - he just doesn't realize there were two real guys instead of one.

So if Rome was covering up for the second, who was covering up the first with the second and why?"

Can anyone put some more light on the matter?

Cool points, my question is left unanswered though :)

I'm not aware of a shred of historical evidence purporting Jesus to be real though, aside from perhaps some crazy person, please link your 37 books on "historical jesus". I'll read them all and get back to you with my findings. You realize all of these books were likely written either by Rome, or some post-Rome author? Of course they all line up to fit the narrative of him being a person

Here are two Romans who wrote about Jesus.

Cornelius Tacitus was a Roman Historian who lived from 55-120AD. In 115 AD, P. Cornelius Tacitus wrote the following passage that refers to Jesus (called “Christus,” which means “The Messiah”) in book 15, chapter 44 of The Annals after a six-day fire burned much of Rome:

“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.” Despite the fact the clearly despised Christianity as a “mischievous superstition”, Tacitus no less confirms once again the existence of Jesus and His crucifixion on the cross, it also states Pontius Pilate as the procurator who oversaw the crucifixion again giving non-Biblical proof of Jesus’ existence as recorded in the Bible.

Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus , (61 AD – ca. 112 AD) : “better known as Pliny the Younger, was a lawyer, author, and magistrate of Ancient Rome. According to Wikipedia: “Pliny is known for his hundreds of surviving letters, which are an invaluable historical source for the time period. Many are addressed to reigning emperors or to notables such as the historian, Tacitus. Pliny himself was a notable figure, serving as an imperial magistrate under Trajan (reigned AD 98–117). Pliny was considered an honest and moderate man, consistent in his pursuit of suspected Christian members according to Roman law, and rose through a series of Imperial civil and military offices, the cursus honorum.” In his correspondence with the emperor Trajan (Epistulae X.96) he reported on his actions against the followers of Christ. He asks the Emperor for instructions dealing with Christians and explained that he forced Christians to curse Christ under painful torturous inquisition:

“They were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of a meal–but ordinary and innocent food.” So not only was Pliny aware of Jesus Christ, he also provides description of the activities of the early church. In a later writing he details persecution against Christians: “Even this practice, however, they had abandoned after the publication of my edict, by which, according to your orders, I had forbidden political associations. I therefore judged it so much more the necessary to extract the real truth, with the assistance of torture, from two female slaves, who were styled deaconesses: but I could discover nothing more than depraved and excessive superstition. In the meanwhile, the method I have observed towards those who have denounced to me as Christians is this: I interrogated them whether they were Christians; if they confessed it I repeated the question twice again, adding the threat of capital punishment; if they still persevered, I ordered them to be executed. For whatever the nature of their creed might be, I could at least feel not doubt that contumacy and inflexible obstinacy deserved chastisement. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.” So here we see that not only did Pliny not follow the Christian faith, he was torturing Christians and threatening death against them. And he even records that under threat of execution (just for believing in Jesus Christ as God) the early church members refused to deny their faith in Jesus.

what is the proof you have seen, thru all your 2 dozen books, that shows he existed?

They didn't "brutally persecute it". The few stories we have of people mentioning Christian persecution comes literally decades after the fact, in the form of second and even third hand information. Not to mention, that the earliest use of the word "Christian" would not need to refer to believers in Jesus Christ, specifically. "Christ" is a title, for the Jewish Messiah, and isn't a specific name for just one guy wandering around Palestine.

Jews back then were quite militant, and absolutely refused to blend in with Roman society. When they found a "Christ" during the Jewish revolt, it made them rabid, and impossible to subdue. Even after Jerusalem was sacked, Jewish uprisings continued, in other regions of the empire, with Jewish populations.

The Romans needed more than military force to subdue these people, so they subverted Judaism, with "Christianity". With Josephus FLAVIUS' (hint hint) help, who was a Jewish traitor well versed in Jewish teachings, they created a false Messiah myth, which many Jews flocked to, and it neutered them, as a people, and made them more fit to be ruled over.

It started out as one Caesar's family's myth to gain power, and as it developed into an impressive form of mass mind control, the Romans adopted it as their institutional religion, and it continues to rule over people to this day.

Paul, who was Saul a jew who hated the jewish Christians, helped with this myth.

Cornelius Tacitus was a Roman Historian who lived from 55-120AD. In 115 AD, P. Cornelius Tacitus wrote the following passage that refers to Jesus (called “Christus,” which means “The Messiah”) in book 15, chapter 44 of The Annals after a six-day fire burned much of Rome: “Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.” Despite the fact the clearly despised Christianity as a “mischievous superstition”, Tacitus no less confirms once again the existence of Jesus and His crucifixion on the cross, it also states Pontius Pilate as the procurator who oversaw the crucifixion again giving non-Biblical proof of Jesus’ existence as recorded in the Bible. Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus, (61 AD – ca. 112 AD) : “better known as Pliny the Younger, was a lawyer, author, and magistrate of Ancient Rome. According to Wikipedia: “Pliny is known for his hundreds of surviving letters, which are an invaluable historical source for the time period. Many are addressed to reigning emperors or to notables such as the historian, Tacitus. Pliny himself was a notable figure, serving as an imperial magistrate under Trajan (reigned AD 98–117). Pliny was considered an honest and moderate man, consistent in his pursuit of suspected Christian members according to Roman law, and rose through a series of Imperial civil and military offices, the cursus honorum.” In his correspondence with the emperor Trajan (Epistulae X.96) he reported on his actions against the followers of Christ. He asks the Emperor for instructions dealing with Christians and explained that he forced Christians to curse Christ under painful torturous inquisition: “They were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of a meal–but ordinary and innocent food.” So not only was Pliny aware of Jesus Christ, he also provides description of the activities of the early church. In a later writing he details persecution against Christians: “Even this practice, however, they had abandoned after the publication of my edict, by which, according to your orders, I had forbidden political associations. I therefore judged it so much more the necessary to extract the real truth, with the assistance of torture, from two female slaves, who were styled deaconesses: but I could discover nothing more than depraved and excessive superstition. In the meanwhile, the method I have observed towards those who have denounced to me as Christians is this: I interrogated them whether they were Christians; if they confessed it I repeated the question twice again, adding the threat of capital punishment; if they still persevered, I ordered them to be executed. For whatever the nature of their creed might be, I could at least feel not doubt that contumacy and inflexible obstinacy deserved chastisement. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.” So here we see that not only did Pliny not follow the Christian faith, he was torturing Christians and threatening death against them. And he even records that under threat of execution (just for believing in Jesus Christ as God) the early church members refused to deny their faith in Jesus. Sextus Julius Africanus (c.160 – c.240) was a Christian traveller and historian of the late 2nd and early 3rd century AD. He is important chiefly because of his influence on Eusebius, on all the later writers of Church history among the Fathers, and on the whole Greek school of chroniclers Julius Africanus quotes the writings of Thallus, who was a first century non-Christian historian. In his Chronicles, Africanus quoting the historian Tallus, explains the reason for it being so dark during the day time on the day of crucifixion of Jesus Christ: “An eclipse of the sun’ unreasonably, as it seems to me (unreasonably of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of the full moon, and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died.” Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18. Lucian of Samosate Lucian (Born 115 AD) was a well-known Greek satirist and traveling lecturer. More than eighty works bear his name. He mocked Christians in his writing, but at the same time provided evidence that Jesus really did exist: “He was second only to that one whom they still worship today, the man in Palestine who was crucified because he brought this new form of initiation into the world.” “Having convinced themselves that they are immortal and will live forever, the poor wretches despise death and most willingly give themselves to it. Moreover, that first lawgiver of theirs persuaded them that they are all brothers the moment they transgress and deny the Greek gods and begin worshiping that crucified sophist and living by his laws.” “They scorn all possessions without distinction and treat them as community property. They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time.” Phlegon of Tralles Phlegon of Tralles was a first century secular Greek historian born not long after the Crucifixion. He inadvertently dated the darkness at noon on the day of Crucifixion in his work, The Olympiades. Phlegon's greatest work was the writing of a history book, called The Olympiades. The Olympiades can be used as a useful means of establishing a time-line. We only have fragments left to us of this monumental work and quotations of it from other writers. One such quotation is as follows, "In the 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad, there was a great eclipse of the Sun, greater than had ever been known before, for at the sixth hour the day was changed into night, and the stars were seen in the heavens. An earthquake occurred in Bythinia and overthrew a great part of the city of Nicæa." *Africanus quoted a section of Phlegon's work *as follows: "During the time of Tiberius Cæsar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the Full Moon." Thallus (Greek: Θαλλός) was an early historian who wrote in Koine Greek. He wrote a three-volume history of the Mediterranean world from before the Trojan War to the 167th Olympiad, c. 112-109 BC. Most of his work, like the vast majority of ancient literature, has been lost, although some of his writings were quoted by Sextus Julius Africanus in his History of the World On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the passion of our Savior falls on the day before the passover; but an eclipse of the sun takes place only when the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun? Let opinion pass however; let it carry the majority with it; and let this portent of the world be deemed an eclipse of the sun, like others a portent only to the eye. Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth--manifestly that one of which we speak. But what has an eclipse in common with an earthquake, the rending rocks, and the resurrection of the dead, and so great a perturbation throughout the universe? Surely no such event as this is recorded for a long period edit:sources are the relevant Wikipedia pages on the authors.

they won't say why they believe jesus existed. and it is belief or they'd show the hard truth. I think it's possible he existed and possible he didn't. Either way no hard evidence.

Here are two Romans who wrote about Jesus. Cornelius Tacitus was a Roman Historian who lived from 55-120AD. In 115 AD, P. Cornelius Tacitus wrote the following passage that refers to Jesus (called “Christus,” which means “The Messiah”) in book 15, chapter 44 of The Annals after a six-day fire burned much of Rome: “Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.” Despite the fact the clearly despised Christianity as a “mischievous superstition”, Tacitus no less confirms once again the existence of Jesus and His crucifixion on the cross, it also states Pontius Pilate as the procurator who oversaw the crucifixion again giving non-Biblical proof of Jesus’ existence as recorded in the Bible.

Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus , (61 AD – ca. 112 AD) : “better known as Pliny the Younger, was a lawyer, author, and magistrate of Ancient Rome. According to Wikipedia: “Pliny is known for his hundreds of surviving letters, which are an invaluable historical source for the time period. Many are addressed to reigning emperors or to notables such as the historian, Tacitus. Pliny himself was a notable figure, serving as an imperial magistrate under Trajan (reigned AD 98–117). Pliny was considered an honest and moderate man, consistent in his pursuit of suspected Christian members according to Roman law, and rose through a series of Imperial civil and military offices, the cursus honorum.” In his correspondence with the emperor Trajan (Epistulae X.96) he reported on his actions against the followers of Christ. He asks the Emperor for instructions dealing with Christians and explained that he forced Christians to curse Christ under painful torturous inquisition:

“They were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of a meal–but ordinary and innocent food.” So not only was Pliny aware of Jesus Christ, he also provides description of the activities of the early church. In a later writing he details persecution against Christians: “Even this practice, however, they had abandoned after the publication of my edict, by which, according to your orders, I had forbidden political associations. I therefore judged it so much more the necessary to extract the real truth, with the assistance of torture, from two female slaves, who were styled deaconesses: but I could discover nothing more than depraved and excessive superstition. In the meanwhile, the method I have observed towards those who have denounced to me as Christians is this: I interrogated them whether they were Christians; if they confessed it I repeated the question twice again, adding the threat of capital punishment; if they still persevered, I ordered them to be executed. For whatever the nature of their creed might be, I could at least feel not doubt that contumacy and inflexible obstinacy deserved chastisement. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.” So here we see that not only did Pliny not follow the Christian faith, he was torturing Christians and threatening death against them. And he even records that under threat of execution (just for believing in Jesus Christ as God) the early church members refused to deny their faith in Jesus.

those are forged

There is no evidence these were forged, in fact Tacitus was a Roman senator and considered by scholars to be the foremost Roman historian. I presented evidence as you requested please take the time to objectively educate yourself on the subject. The vast majority of scholars who have studied the historicity of Jesus believe He existed.

yeah there is, those people do exist but the parts on jesus were put in later. the one that is true is josephus talking about james the brother of jesus. this is tough for you to use cuz mother mary was supposed to always be a virgin

So you're saying that its a conspiracy theory and therefore should not be taken seriously?

No, he's saying the opposite. That it is a conspiracy and that it should be taken seriously as a conspiracy. Do you need a dictionary?

No, he's saying that the conspiracy that Jesus didn't exist is rejected by everyone and therefore isn't true. Or maybe I just don't understand what he's saying but upon rereading the comment that appears to still be true.

What historical evidence? You must be mistaken. There is none.

Cornelius Tacitus was a Roman Historian who lived from 55-120AD. In 115 AD, P. Cornelius Tacitus wrote the following passage that refers to Jesus (called “Christus,” which means “The Messiah”) in book 15, chapter 44 of The Annals after a six-day fire burned much of Rome: “Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.” Despite the fact the clearly despised Christianity as a “mischievous superstition”, Tacitus no less confirms once again the existence of Jesus and His crucifixion on the cross, it also states Pontius Pilate as the procurator who oversaw the crucifixion again giving non-Biblical proof of Jesus’ existence as recorded in the Bible.

Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus , (61 AD – ca. 112 AD) : “better known as Pliny the Younger, was a lawyer, author, and magistrate of Ancient Rome. According to Wikipedia: “Pliny is known for his hundreds of surviving letters, which are an invaluable historical source for the time period. Many are addressed to reigning emperors or to notables such as the historian, Tacitus. Pliny himself was a notable figure, serving as an imperial magistrate under Trajan (reigned AD 98–117). Pliny was considered an honest and moderate man, consistent in his pursuit of suspected Christian members according to Roman law, and rose through a series of Imperial civil and military offices, the cursus honorum.” In his correspondence with the emperor Trajan (Epistulae X.96) he reported on his actions against the followers of Christ. He asks the Emperor for instructions dealing with Christians and explained that he forced Christians to curse Christ under painful torturous inquisition:

“They were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of a meal–but ordinary and innocent food.” So not only was Pliny aware of Jesus Christ, he also provides description of the activities of the early church. In a later writing he details persecution against Christians: “Even this practice, however, they had abandoned after the publication of my edict, by which, according to your orders, I had forbidden political associations. I therefore judged it so much more the necessary to extract the real truth, with the assistance of torture, from two female slaves, who were styled deaconesses: but I could discover nothing more than depraved and excessive superstition. In the meanwhile, the method I have observed towards those who have denounced to me as Christians is this: I interrogated them whether they were Christians; if they confessed it I repeated the question twice again, adding the threat of capital punishment; if they still persevered, I ordered them to be executed. For whatever the nature of their creed might be, I could at least feel not doubt that contumacy and inflexible obstinacy deserved chastisement. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.” So here we see that not only did Pliny not follow the Christian faith, he was torturing Christians and threatening death against them. And he even records that under threat of execution (just for believing in Jesus Christ as God) the early church members refused to deny their faith in Jesus.

Sextus Julius Africanus (c.160 – c.240) was a Christian traveller and historian of the late 2nd and early 3rd century AD. He is important chiefly because of his influence on Eusebius, on all the later writers of Church history among the Fathers, and on the whole Greek school of chroniclers Julius Africanus quotes the writings of Thallus, who was a first century non-Christian historian. In his Chronicles, Africanus quoting the historian Tallus, explains the reason for it being so dark during the day time on the day of crucifixion of Jesus Christ:

“An eclipse of the sun’ unreasonably, as it seems to me (unreasonably of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of the full moon, and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died.” Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18. Lucian of Samosate Lucian (Born 115 AD) was a well-known Greek satirist and traveling lecturer. More than eighty works bear his name. He mocked Christians in his writing, but at the same time provided evidence that Jesus really did exist: “He was second only to that one whom they still worship today, the man in Palestine who was crucified because he brought this new form of initiation into the world.” “Having convinced themselves that they are immortal and will live forever, the poor wretches despise death and most willingly give themselves to it. Moreover, that first lawgiver of theirs persuaded them that they are all brothers the moment they transgress and deny the Greek gods and begin worshiping that crucified sophist and living by his laws.” “They scorn all possessions without distinction and treat them as community property. They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time.” Phlegon of Tralles Phlegon of Tralles was a first century secular Greek historian born not long after the Crucifixion. He inadvertently dated the darkness at noon on the day of Crucifixion in his work, The Olympiades. Phlegon's greatest work was the writing of a history book, called The Olympiades. The Olympiades can be used as a useful means of establishing a time-line. We only have fragments left to us of this monumental work and quotations of it from other writers. One such quotation is as follows, "In the 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad, there was a great eclipse of the Sun, greater than had ever been known before, for at the sixth hour the day was changed into night, and the stars were seen in the heavens. An earthquake occurred in Bythinia and overthrew a great part of the city of Nicæa." *Africanus quoted a section of Phlegon's work *as follows: "During the time of Tiberius Cæsar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the Full Moon."

Thallus (Greek: Θαλλός) was an early historian who wrote in Koine Greek. He wrote a three-volume history of the Mediterranean world from before the Trojan War to the 167th Olympiad, c. 112-109 BC. Most of his work, like the vast majority of ancient literature, has been lost, although some of his writings were quoted by Sextus Julius Africanus in his History of the World On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the passion of our Savior falls on the day before the passover; but an eclipse of the sun takes place only when the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun? Let opinion pass however; let it carry the majority with it; and let this portent of the world be deemed an eclipse of the sun, like others a portent only to the eye. Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth--manifestly that one of which we speak. But what has an eclipse in common with an earthquake, the rending rocks, and the resurrection of the dead, and so great a perturbation throughout the universe? Surely no such event as this is recorded for a long period edit:sources are the relevant Wikipedia pages on the authors.

I hate when you say, "even skeptical scholars". Then when asked for evidence if scholar saying that you provide no evidence.

Amazing how many father comments in this thread. For a sub that doesn't accept faith in authority, it seems more than odd. Now we get christian brigades?

I don't know if it's Christian brigades for dilution of content or the fact abrhamic religious dogma is so intensely ingrained in folks that even those that feel they've escaped it are still caught up in its more subtle machinations. I could honestly extrapolate this thought across several subreddits I frequent.

Btw, those money changers Jesus fought were charging 4 sheckles to exchange every 10 scheckles. If they had to exchange anything above 10 sheckles, they would raise the price to 8 sheckles!

These fuckers were charging 40%-80% exchange rates at a holy Synagogue. What an insult to the true believers who are going to synagogue for real religious reasons.

Moloch

Mammon

Baal too. Baal worshipping Hebrews were fighting with Orthodox Jews to legealize land ownership. Baal means owner. Baal priests were essentially real estate agents.

Nifty tidbit, thank you.

Lord/Owner/Master ; it is also a title.

Baal is based off Marduk

It's actually more correct to say 'The 'Meeting place' of Satan', and not the modern usage of the word 'Synagougue'.(the word 'Synagogue' refers to a '“a house [or place] of gathering). The word synagogē was not originally Jewish, and first appears in the Greek New testament.

It comes from the verb synagein, “to bring together or gather,” and is a translation of the Hebrew bet-k’neset, “a house [or place] of gathering.

Rome is the enemy here. Also, Satan in the Bible killed 10 people.... God committed genocide.

The greatest trick God ever pulled was convincing people he was good.

You're not getting the point. As Jesus pointed out many times, it wasn't "God" doing all those nasty things, it was the Jews. They just used their God as an excuse.

Absolutely not. Rome ruled that area when Jesus supposedly lived. Nothing happened without Rome's word. The Jews were under Rome's control.

You hate the Jews due to the roman influence on the Bible and their influence on today's media. Don't blindly follow.

Money rules. All roads lead to Rome.

Doesn't the money all lead to Rothschild?

You mean the traitor who told the Germans where the Jews were? He's not Jewish at all

Israel exists thanks to Rothschild. Regardless of Rothschild being Jewish, the public and obvious roads still lead there.

Rome funded the nazis. Rothschild helped the nazis. Rome has scapegoated Jews and Israel in a brilliant way making you think all the worlds problems are from the Jews.

Pizza gate.... human sacrifices.... that's all the Vatican. They're in charge.

Y'all are kinda splittin hairs, but I think the Vatican is one or two layers over the Rothschilds (who yes did create Israel via Balfour Declaration).

I can't connect the dots between middle east wars or central banks and the Vatican. Help appreciated.

The Vatican and the central bankers are allies. Likely worshipping the same pantheon of Saturn, Apollo, Neptune, and IHS (Iris/Horus/Set). All straight outta Egypt.... which was straight outta Babylon.

Babylon->Egypt->Rome->London

Modern Jewry is a creation. The Hebrews seemed to be good people. Modern Jews are not Hebrew (or Semite FWIW).

I disagree with Evan's read of God and Satan. What he is calling God here is really Yahweh, who itself was created by God. The genocide was due to Satan putting its creations on the planet over Yahweh's creations. God intended Yahweh to be this plane's creator god (not The Creator God). What the Vatican worships is the initiative of Satan. The power to Do/Make/Build/Create (which is why the freemasons are "Builders")(and is the central story to the story of Solomon's Temple).

I agree with Evan in that it was Rome, not the Jews, messing with Jesus.

How to connect that all to today's wars? Great question. Short answer: same as the bible... they wanna kill the Christians. Actually, they wanna kill all the monotheists, imho. The heart of monotheism is the middle east.

It's easy to see Rothschild everywhere in current events, not so easy to see Rome or Babylon everywhere. I've never been convinced Rothschild takes orders from anyone, but they probably do.

Babylon has been hiding for eons. They are masters at it!

That's Soros.

It is a frightful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. You're not standing on solid ground. How many warnings do you need? We were all born into sin, and through that, death. We were all dead in our transgressions. Jesus came to save! God is the most fair and most righteous. It would be better for you to tie a millstone around your feet and jump into the ocean than to mislead people.

There is zero proof god exists. If you just look at the Bible (which is wildly inaccurate), God is the evil one.

I live my life by the golden rule: treat those like you would want to be treated. OR, don't treat those like you would not like to be treated.

Live your life. YOU are number 1, not some deity that MAY or MAY NOT exist. Enjoy life. Treat yourself well. Treat your family and friends well. Treat your neighbors well.

When you say God here, and other posts in this thread, you're referring to Yahweh (I think). Yahweh is the God of the Bible, but not The Creator God. Yahweh and Satan are equals, both created by The Creator God. Yahweh creates Eve under The Creator Gods will, and later Adam. Satan despoils Eve, Adam marries Eve. Satan's kid is Cain, Yahweh's is Abel.

The evil acts in the Bible are the actions of an angry Yahweh. This is the confusion between the Strict and Angry God vs the Eternal Love God.

No, he said you have made a den of thieves out of my Father's house. His father is not the enemy. His Father is the advocate, the creator. Please, if you are going to bring Jesus up as an example, do not try to backtrack and say he was driving thrives out of Satan's house.

Usury

Ephesians 6:12King James Version (KJV)

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Yes, there's most definitely a spiritual war at play.

I totally agree. All these conspiracies of the elite being in contact with inter-dimensional beings definitely sounds straight up spiritual, rather than extraterrestrial.

Aliens are Demons/Fallen Angels:

Ancient Alien Deception is a age-old-long-con perpetuated by interdimensional beings who hate all forms of life, and are in perpetual warfare for the souls of humanity.

Evil's (obvious) intention is the destruction of all life and the transgressions against the God ordained reality of existence (Inversion of Nature).

The Rabbit hole gets deeper: https://50shadesofpissedoff.wordpress.com/2016/04/04/how-i-woke-up/

if aliens are demons / fallen angels, couldnt some "angels" be interpreted as "aliens". Why are aliens only demons? couldn't there be good(angelic) and bad(demonic) ET? Couldn't they also be interdimensional? Are there no benevolent interdimensional beings?

A spiritual war? Nah, its only a war to religious zealots.

bro...

Okay. I'll bite. What?

Jesus really does love you

I'm glad your imaginary friend loves me.

Remember kids, when someone says: "What Would Jesus Do?"

Flipping over scumbag moneychanger's tables and chasing the elite with a whip is within the realm of possibilities.

Lol. Not only this crack me up but it is also Literally True. Jesus was a living example of divinity and he would not stand for the Sanhedrin to abuse the masses. They shut down shop out of fear after this incident but reopened sometime after Jesus died.

Btw, this same Sanhedrin wrote a book in the Talmud. The Talmud is the most evil religious book.

Also today's priests are celebrities, journalists and image makers.

These are the people half way up the pyramid who tell the 80% below what to think, what values they should have, what to aspire to and how best to live. This is exactly the role priests had in Christian Europe or monks in Buddhist East Asia.

The modern version is Beyonce or the Kardashians or the news networks preaching the new religion of narcissism, hedonism, universalism, subjectivity and relativism.

Very true. All religions are essentially cults ATM including the big 5 (Christianity, catholics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhist). Religion is intended to be an inner experience, not an outer experience. They just tricked us into thinking we have to go through a middle man (priest) to get to God or that we have to go to church to be in gods presence. Nothing could be further than the truth but I have to admit some priests genuinely believe they are doing the right thing.

There are two different types of Jews... The Talmud jews need to be focused out and wiped out. This is the israel that consists of our government and Washington D.C.

https://youtu.be/cxcQmUwJWo4

It's all in here. It even has quotes from the talmud that washington d.c. is run by.

Jesus is a myth, dude. It's one thing to respect the archetype, but it's psychosis to believe that he was real.

Well, I am an ex-atheist so go figure. I'm also a non-denominational religionists but I do believe Jesus was real but I think we mistook him for the 2nd part of the Trinity and I also don't believe he died like a sacrificial lamb as the Christians teach.

I'm sorry to hear about your mental illness.

Good luck.

Thanks.

Np.

If Jesus is a myth, why do the Jews hate him?

That's both racist and a generalization. Most of the Jews I know don't give a shit about religion one way or the other.

You're right, I edited, apologies

You still believe Jesus actually existed? Why? I'm here to learn.

Tough to answer. I studied many near death experiences which give a lot of insight into spiritual matters.

http://www.near-death.com/

Some kind of faith in a the existence of not merely a force but a physical being who walked the earth, then. Okay.

The most likely truth is that there was a real person, whose real name was Yeshua (later translations brought about the name Jesus), and was a great wise man...but then after he died, people added all the previously known mystical stuff that borrows from other religions that came before ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_comparative_mythology ) to make him this god figure that he himself didn't intend at all. A lot of it started with his disciple Paul who wrote the vast majority of the New Testament and corrupted his message to convert people as quickly as possible thinking his return was imminent. ( http://30ce.com/paulinechristianity.htm )

I looked into Jesus debunking, but all they have is only Jews wrote about him, these authors should have mentioned him, and Jesus fits the archetype of 20 other saviors/prophets. It wasn't super compelling but I haven't put that much time into it and am still curious.

His name was Isa, he was a Gnostic. The Romans (not the Jews) killed him. It's all laid out pretty clearly in the Quran. And there is historical evidence that he (somebody named Isa who preached asceticism in the Levant and survived crucifixion) went to Asia after his crucifixion.

Uh huh. Literally true. Except Jesus didn't exist. But I heard the Easter Bunny was very active in the fight against the Illuminati.

No they perverted the old metaphor of utopian Zion found within Old Testament prophets. Its always been an imaginary place. The oasis seen in the mirage. Jesus said due unto me what you would have others do unto you. He killed the bankers and pharisees means thus having them kill him in turn. In this case his end justified the means. This is how we destroy modern day babylon and their child molesting music industry cult.

Jesus is a bad ass.

100%.

Preach it

Amen to that.

He even made the whip himself in the bible its a verse

Sure did. Have you ever woven a whip? 3 Cords; probably would take a few hours; maybe not for the Son of God.

But, premeditated, indeed.

i made one out of caution tape i ganked

And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; John 2:15

Had no idea but I guess it wouldn't make sense for Jesus to drive out the money changers all willy nilly based on emotions without a whip.

Here is the best part that goes overlooked; There are temple guards. They're armed...and they didn't do shit. Could they have? Or did they know what he was doing was righteous? I'd like to think that not only did they know what he was doing was right, but they weren't even capable of stopping his righteous indignation, and fury.

Blessed are the Meek, for they will inherit the earth.

Meekness is power under control.

So it reads: "Blessed are those who are skilled at violence, and are armed, who keep their weapons sheathed; for they will inherit the earth."

That is badass, like Jesus...could just end your existence with a thought and yet; takes on the rules so even a piece of garbage human like me could get a shot at salvation.

I sure am thankful, and with that...I want my SALT to be SALTY and my LIGHT to be LIT.

This is war.

He would do nothing because he was not real

Continue to worship Hercules as much as you like

Hercules is pleased!

Continue to worship yourself as much as you like; Judging by this account's history it is working.

I am happy

At least I am real, unlike your half god man spawn

But sure, keep worshiping your action star

Are you happy, because reading your comments you sound overwhelmingly negative.

Do you hold onto a throwaway until the shame of the downvotes is unbearable and start over?

You really should try to contribute to the sub if you want to snark-snipe strangers.

PS: 100% God, 100% man. I know, a mystery. Tough.

I keep seeing people post garbage like, "would Jesus support Trump?"

Bitch pls When did Jesus involve himself in politics? His plan transcended politics entirely

Fam you right!

They didn't kill him because he was such a nice guy. They killed Jesus because he was a pain in their asses. Also, he beat up their friends and made dead people walk.

Now it's your turn.

Excellent post. The second law could also be interpreted as "Be Excellent to one another" which is the way I take it. I try to live at peace with everyone, and settle disputes as quietly I can.

"I come not to bring peace, but a sword."

Jesus was a badass and was against everything modern exoteric Christianity represents.

Quite so. The minute the churchians align themselves with the government or worse they have lost the battle and the war. It is a spritual war. More so than most people care to admit.

He was nothing more than a Zionist terrorist, fighting against the invading Roman authorities. He was executed for these acts against Rome. A Bronze Age version of another insurgent group from the Middle East.

who are secretly the good guys, ignore the empire's propaganda

reading Zealot right now. The priests were beholden to rome. Tons of jews of the time were rising up in revolt against the system. Safe bet Jesus was one of them. A revolutionary. Gospels, ala God Spells, using magic to trick people into doing what you want, were written later and designed to pacify the jewish rebels and get them to render unto Caesar his taxes.

I really enjoyed that book, fascinating perspective.

Sounds interesting, thanks for the recommendation.

Apostasy in the New Christian church began early.

New International Version The Man of Lawlessness

1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessnessa is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

5Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Oh my god... and they literally crucified him for it!

why not it is a 2000 year old conspiracy

Just the same, it was the religious who had Jesus killed on the cross.

Further, I find it interesting that despite all of the revealings of evil this past year, the Western Church is mostly still asleep! It's the young, the broken, the atheists, the scientific types, the lost that are rejecting the world systems now and are opening their eyes to the reality of God and Christ. It really is an absolutely incredible time to be alive for those who are awake.

A year ago I was a staunch atheist. I'm now halfway through Genesis. I see evil. I see powerful people with more knowledge than me of the world worshiping evil. I'm not a Christian yet but I'm more open to the idea. My parents are happy about that

Have a blessed journey.

I've been a woke Christian for a good while now. Nothing has been so enlightening to me in knowing the aims and agendas of the ruling class than the bible.

Christ willingly went. Matthew 26:53-54

Jesus was killed by the state, though yeah, he attacked Bankers and Priests. The state holds a monopoly on violence, which is why the people who got Jesus murdered got away with it (for a while). They set Jesus up as the bad guy and hid behind the law to make Jesus pay for what he did, expose the truth.

The State is the third pillar of Abuse of Power that allows the other two to thrive and escape consequences. Priests and Bankers wouldn't have touched Jesus if he had gotten protection from Rome, with recognition of his branch of Judaism the established partnership of Bankers and Priests in those olden days would have had to find some other way of getting rid of him, or innovating to compete with him.

Jesus would go after the same people today only to find himself murdered once more, by the state holding the monopoloy of violence.

I'd die for Him. For Truth. for Logos.

He did it for me. What a blessing it would be to share in the same suffering. To live is Christ, to die is Gain.

He'll destroy the establishment upon his return. It's right there in His name.

Jesus' life was the ultimate parable.

Luke 17:21 - 22

The kingdom of God is within YOU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WibmcsEGLKo

You are the most powerful quantum supercomputer in the known Universe, the Word. God made us unique, coded with the complex language of DNA, able to be imbued with His power. Each one can be a unique board, fitly joined together to form the Ark. We can choose to be His vessels on Earth. We know how this is all going to end, as Jesus told us in Matthew 24. Read that and then look out at the world.

http://biblehub.com/niv/matthew/24.htm

You can see this is happening. Jesus is the Truth, the Way, the Life. "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."

"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man loves me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."

"Religion" has twisted Christ more than any institution. Just sit in the pew, hear a feel good message, and do nothing. Repeat. The True Spirit wants to use YOU, and you can become the Sons and Daughters of the Most High God.

"Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

you are reading too literal into it still...

So tell me what I've said that is too literal. A lot of that other post isnt jiving with my perception.

How could Jesus single-handedly expel the Pharisees? Were there no Temple bodyguards? Was it a divine bullwhip?

Jesus Pronounces Seven Woes to the Scribes and Pharisees

23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear,[a] and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7 and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi[b] by others. 8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.[c] 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.[d] 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell[e] as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22 And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,[f] whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Make it eight: "Woe this faggot is fucking retarded"- jesus

Any truth to the theory he was a vegetarian and didn't care for the sacrifice?

No it was often mentioned that he ate meat. As he should.

Well, the Garden of Eden was vegan. It was only after the Flood that God said, "meat shall be your meat."

He made that a thing at that point for a reason though and just as we can't really escape the thorns, the thistles and the sweat of our brow, we also can't go back to Eden in other ways either. We will go forward, though, and there is a better destination in the end.

What's the reason?

strangely i can't find this comment in the thread and i'm guessing this was in reply to the eating meat thing?

I say He had a reason because we're already in the assumption that God said it. That alone means it has a reason. The reason is not directly said but a number of global scale geographic and atmospheric changes occurred to produce the flood. This would change a lot about photosynthesis, ground nurtients, water delivery, etc.. effected how plants grow and uptake nutrients.

It logically follows that plants were many times more nutrient dense and provided a greater range of nutrients than they could later. God giving the few humans left on earth the best chance at survival would mean letting them eat what can give them more options in where to get their nutrition.

Thanks for the response. I'm interested in the idea from an ethical perspective, but maybe I'm reading too much into it. I think the 7th Day Adventists are vegetarian, no? Also, the whole Jesus-hippie vegetarian thing does seem to popular. In The World Peace Diet , the author mentions the Ediomite Jews might've practiced some form of vegetarianism. The Pythagoras cult is another popular ancient exploration of these ideas.

I think you may be correct on 7th day adventists. Like most denominations they seem to hit some things and miss others. This is why i prefer God, alone, to be the interpreter of His own word and leave the preachers and priests interpretations out. My own opinion is that vegetarianism/veganism is not the healthiest of choices and there might be a deeper agenda to why its trending in popularity.

It's true enough that God cared little for the temple sacrifices, but Jesus both ate fish and the passover lamb.

I remember questioning this in Catholic school because it seemed very much like a sin to yell at people and break their shit. The teachers told us it was not a sin because it was "Jesus' house". Crap answer but that's what I was given at the time, lol.

Le money is evil may may. Buy some bitcoins guys. You wont hate the rich as much anymore, especially if you hang on to them for a few years.

Do you realise how ridiculous chan-speak makes you look, and how hard it is to take anything you post seriously?

No sense irony huh? Or humor in general. And that's straight from reddit.

le chan speak is evil may may

Jesus wasn't real, fam

I don't think he was either. But still, I think the Bible is important and has hidden meanings that are relevant.

So do R.L. Stine books.

Cornelius Tacitus was a Roman Historian who lived from 55-120AD. In 115 AD, P. Cornelius Tacitus wrote the following passage that refers to Jesus (called “Christus,” which means “The Messiah”) in book 15, chapter 44 of The Annals after a six-day fire burned much of Rome:

“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.”

Despite the fact the clearly despised Christianity as a “mischievous superstition”, Tacitus no less confirms once again the existence of Jesus and His crucifixion on the cross, it also states Pontius Pilate as the procurator who oversaw the crucifixion again giving non-Biblical proof of Jesus’ existence as recorded in the Bible.

Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus, (61 AD – ca. 112 AD) : “better known as Pliny the Younger, was a lawyer, author, and magistrate of Ancient Rome. According to Wikipedia: “Pliny is known for his hundreds of surviving letters, which are an invaluable historical source for the time period. Many are addressed to reigning emperors or to notables such as the historian, Tacitus. Pliny himself was a notable figure, serving as an imperial magistrate under Trajan (reigned AD 98–117). Pliny was considered an honest and moderate man, consistent in his pursuit of suspected Christian members according to Roman law, and rose through a series of Imperial civil and military offices, the cursus honorum.” In his correspondence with the emperor Trajan (Epistulae X.96) he reported on his actions against the followers of Christ. He asks the Emperor for instructions dealing with Christians and explained that he forced Christians to curse Christ under painful torturous inquisition:

“They were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of a meal–but ordinary and innocent food.” So not only was Pliny aware of Jesus Christ, he also provides description of the activities of the early church. In a later writing he details persecution against Christians:

“Even this practice, however, they had abandoned after the publication of my edict, by which, according to your orders, I had forbidden political associations. I therefore judged it so much more the necessary to extract the real truth, with the assistance of torture, from two female slaves, who were styled deaconesses: but I could discover nothing more than depraved and excessive superstition. In the meanwhile, the method I have observed towards those who have denounced to me as Christians is this: I interrogated them whether they were Christians; if they confessed it I repeated the question twice again, adding the threat of capital punishment; if they still persevered, I ordered them to be executed. For whatever the nature of their creed might be, I could at least feel not doubt that contumacy and inflexible obstinacy deserved chastisement. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.”

So here we see that not only did Pliny not follow the Christian faith, he was torturing Christians and threatening death against them. And he even records that under threat of execution (just for believing in Jesus Christ as God) the early church members refused to deny their faith in Jesus.

Sextus Julius Africanus (c.160 – c.240) was a Christian traveller and historian of the late 2nd and early 3rd century AD. He is important chiefly because of his influence on Eusebius, on all the later writers of Church history among the Fathers, and on the whole Greek school of chroniclers Julius Africanus quotes the writings of Thallus, who was a first century non-Christian historian. In his Chronicles, Africanus quoting the historian Tallus, explains the reason for it being so dark during the day time on the day of crucifixion of Jesus Christ:

“An eclipse of the sun’ unreasonably, as it seems to me (unreasonably of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of the full moon, and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died.” Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18. Lucian of Samosate Lucian (Born 115 AD) was a well-known Greek satirist and traveling lecturer. More than eighty works bear his name. He mocked Christians in his writing, but at the same time provided evidence that Jesus really did exist: “He was second only to that one whom they still worship today, the man in Palestine who was crucified because he brought this new form of initiation into the world.” “Having convinced themselves that they are immortal and will live forever, the poor wretches despise death and most willingly give themselves to it. Moreover, that first lawgiver of theirs persuaded them that they are all brothers the moment they transgress and deny the Greek gods and begin worshiping that crucified sophist and living by his laws.” “They scorn all possessions without distinction and treat them as community property. They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time.” Phlegon of Tralles Phlegon of Tralles was a first century secular Greek historian born not long after the Crucifixion. He inadvertently dated the darkness at noon on the day of Crucifixion in his work, The Olympiades. Phlegon's greatest work was the writing of a history book, called The Olympiades. The Olympiades can be used as a useful means of establishing a time-line. We only have fragments left to us of this monumental work and quotations of it from other writers. One such quotation is as follows, "In the 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad, there was a great eclipse of the Sun, greater than had ever been known before, for at the sixth hour the day was changed into night, and the stars were seen in the heavens. An earthquake occurred in Bythinia and overthrew a great part of the city of Nicæa." Africanus quoted a section of Phlegon's work *as follows: "During the time of Tiberius Cæsar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the Full Moon." * Thallus** (Greek: Θαλλός) was an early historian who wrote in Koine Greek. He wrote a three-volume history of the Mediterranean world from before the Trojan War to the 167th Olympiad, c. 112-109 BC. Most of his work, like the vast majority of ancient literature, has been lost, although some of his writings were quoted by Sextus Julius Africanus in his History of the World On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the passion of our Savior falls on the day before the passover; but an eclipse of the sun takes place only when the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun? Let opinion pass however; let it carry the majority with it; and let this portent of the world be deemed an eclipse of the sun, like others a portent only to the eye.

Phlegon records that , in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth--manifestly that one of which we speak. But what has an eclipse in common with an earthquake, the rending rocks, and the resurrection of the dead, and so great a perturbation throughout the universe? Surely no such event as this is recorded for a long period edit:sources are the relevant Wikipedia pages on the authors.

Source me

Quotes one guy, links Huff post article that doesn't prove a damn thing other than there is a "mysticism movement" gtfoh

you have to face facts there is no proof he existed. we can say he probably did just no proof.

Assuming there was a real Jesus Christ...literally savior messiah. That the romans made an empire upon.

Another christ faggot, shut the fuck up about jesus will ya? There are other subs for that mother fucker, fuck your dick loving child molesting hiring church bullshit

Fantastic and well written! Wow!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNKMXkU09Iw

Like the pope?

The pope's got it comin to him.

Repeat after me 'Jesus was not a Jew'.

The false religious leaders.

John Hagee immediately comes to mind.

and also joel osteen and Joyce Meyer.

Benny Hinn too.

I wonder if old Pat Robertson is farting dust and on the tv.

He is still around and on t.v.

oh jesus

:-)

Oh and Hillsong, Kenneth copeland.

Yes, I forget about him.

I always wonder how Catholics can reconcile the Vatican sitting on the largest treasury in the world while there is so much suffering and starvation in the world, with the teachings of the Bible. Seems like he'd want them to give it all away and use it all for good like Chuck Feeney.

One of the oddest brigade posts yet. Is half-chan having a laugh?

Do people of this sub believe Jesus existed?

Well, he might have existed, but I don't think he was God or the Son of God.

But I do think the Bible is important and has hidden meanings (behind each story) that is relevant to us.

Yes.

Yes, very much so. I speak for myself, and not this sub. Not only did he exist, but He came, and He is coming again. Amen!

All praise the prophet Muhammad. The one way to the kingdom of God.

Off-topic, but thank you for your input. :)

Blasphemer

What does that word mean to you?

Nothing.

His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?" [Jesus said,] "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."

He came, and He is coming again

Well, I hope he's going to clean up his mess.

Why do you say it is His mess? Looks to me like the Devil and man made quite a mess. But yes, he is the King and he'll take care of everything.

he is the King

I'm not a fan of monarchies, the French and Americans had the right idea in the 18th century.

Well, this one is perfect and is also God.

I don't believe you.

Your belief isn't required for me to believe what I believe. I don't think you disagreeing with me on this is weird. In fact, I think that what you said would be considered the normal response. However, I feel it is important that others hear the good news about Jesus. I am commanded by Him to share, not to make you believe or to make you claim allegiance.

Same.

We didn't used to, until all these religious zealots came get from the Donald we laughed at the duped. Now it seems everyone here thinks Jesus is out fighting Jewish bankers, space lizards and pedos. It's getting fucking creepy.

I have no idea how a bunch of people from 4chan into video games and heavy metal and RPGs somehow aligned themselves with satanic panics straight out of the 80s, which have previously vilified all of the above.

altho that is cuz their jobs rely on jesus existing

don't have absolute proof but I am coming around to him existing, if his brother james existed then jesus must have existed

These are good points. I've spent a lot of time in a lot of churches. Most sermons and classes spend very little time focusing on the priorities Jesus gave importance.

I've often wondered if Jesus came today like he did before if he would be branded a conspiracy theorist and placed on the no fly terrorist list.

Dostoevsky beat you to it .

FYI Jesus attacked the moneylenders not because they were moneylenders, but because they were doing it in the temple.

This post makes it sound like Jesus declared bankers anathema. This is not the case. He resented them turning the house of God into a house of material things.

House of prayer. not material things.

He is against materialism. He went to the desert with nothing. He walked to cities with nothing. He asked his discipline to bring nothing with him.

But he also left it up to human choice. Walking Jesus' path is not the only way to get good with God, but it's the most guaranteed one.

He still recognized that a man needs fish to eat, a cloak to wear, and a sword for when someone is trying to take them from you.

According to Jesus Himself, He IS the only way.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Matthew 21:12

Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.

"It is written," he said to them, "'My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it 'a den of robbers.'"

Pretty specific, unless one is using Jesus to prop up one's own preconceptions or agenda. Note that never at any point did he say "Forsooth, and ye shall not lend, nor shall you change money."

I don't disagree with much you've said, except the part where you take a religious message about God's temple and try to squash and fit it into cause du jour.

Awesome.

“Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie

I'm a bot, bleep , bloop . Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

• [ /r/betternews ] Who did Jesus fight? Bankers and priests.

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I'm so tired of fucking biblical posts on this sub.

Then don't participate in them? Should we just post topics of your liking only?

If they're biblical/gnostic conspiracies then sure.

But there are so many posts that are just political or religious rants with no relationship to conspiracies.

Many believe Jews are actively persecuting Christians, it ties into everything

how about posting topics that have to do with actual conspiracy rather than conjecture

You don't see the conspiracy? Jesus whipped the banksters, who conspired to enslave us. We should do the same.

You are absolutely correct

Were they jewish priests?

Yes.

With us transitioning into the Age of Aquarius, those (bankers & false religion) who rule will no longer be in charge. Their days are numbered. They are going to lose.

The Age of Pisces (which represented Jesus) is ending. Jesus showed us (by him fighting the bankers & priests) that they were the ones who are evil.

So hang on, everyone! Be patient! Victory is ours already and it is just around the corner!

Jesus also didn't exist, so don't worry about his example and set your own.

Lol, nope, there is none. Prove me wrong, bucko. In fact, the "Jesus Christ" Paul wrote about is completely unknown. The gospel is whole cloth fiction written in Ancient Rome, by a Pauline Jew, who was criticizing various sects of Judaism and the gal of Jerusalem.

Don't take my word for it:

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/gospel_mark.htm

Christianity is messianic Judaism mixed with Pauline mysticism corrupted by elisha fan fiction . It's hilarious.

Satan, whom the bankers/priests/romans serve:

"Get behind me, Satan" - https://www.gotquestions.org/get-behind-me-Satan.html .

Also, resisting the temptations of Satan: http://biblehub.com/bsb/matthew/4.htm .

It all comes down to faith. You either have it or you do not.

John 14:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14:6: "Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'"

Jesus will go after "them", for it is written (for those who have faith of course), in the book of Revelation, chapter 19: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+19&amp;version=NKJV

He has to war with someone (Revelation 19:11-15) - "11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron."

He would have his work cut out for him today.

I think this story could have another meaning too. It says that our bodies are the Temple of God. So maybe this story could also mean to keep ourselves pure, and not greedy (like the money lenders).

Maybe it means we need to be careful with our spirituality too (since Jesus fought with false religious leaders).

The only bodies that are the temple of God are those of the people that believe on Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior. Because those that believe have received the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of God. Those who do not believe do not have the Spirit.

https://youtu.be/0HdzTvH8mvw

I get out, I'll get out of all your boxes I get out, you can't hold me in these chains I'll get out Father free me from this bondage Knowin' my condition Is the reason I must change Your stinkin' resolution Is no type of solution Preventin' me from freedom Maintainin' your pollution I won't support your lie no more I won't even try no more If I have to die, oh Lord That's how I choose to live I won't be compromised no more I can't be victimised no more I just don't sympathize no more 'cause now I understand You just want to use me You say "love" then abuse me You never thought you'd loose me But how quickly we forget That nothin' is for certain You thought I'd stay here hurtin' Your guilt trip's just not workin' Repressin' me to death 'cause now I'm choosin' life, yo I'll take the sacrifice, yo If everything must go, then go That's how I choose to live Heh... hehehehehe... Ok, we gettin' there At least I had a chunk Aight ok, it's how I choose to live Hehehe, awww No more compromises I see past your diguises Blindin' through mind control Stealin' my eternal soul Appealin' through material To keep me as your slave But I get out Oh, I get out of all your boxes I'll get out Oh, you can't hold me in these chains I get out Oh, I want out of social bondage Knowin' my condition Oh, is the reason I must change See what you see is what you get Oh, and you ain't seen nothin' yet Oh, I don't care if you're upset I could care less if you're upset See it don't change the truth And your hurt feeling's no excuse To keep me in this box Psychological locks Repressin' true expression Cementin' this repression Promotin' mass deception So that no one can be healed I don't respect your system I won't protect your system When you talk I don't listen Oh, let my Father's will be done And just get out Oh, just get out of all these bondage Just get out Oh, you can't hold me in chains Just get out All these traditions killin' freedom Knowin' my condition Is the reason I must change I've just accepted what you said Keepin' me among the dead The only way to know Is to walk then learn and grow But faith is not your speed Oh, you've had everyone believed That you're the sole authority Just follow the majority Afraid to face reality The system is a joke Oh, you'd be smart to save your soul Oh, when escape is mind control You spent your life in sacrifice To a system for the dead Oh, are you sure... Where is the passion in this living Are you sure it's God you servin' Obligated to a system Getting less then you're deserving Who made up these schools, I say Who made up these rules, I say Animal conditioning Oh, just to keep us as a slave Oh, just get out Of this social purgatory Just get out All these traditions are alive Just get out Superstition killing freedom Knowin' my condition Is the reason I must die, ahh Just get out Just get out Just get out Let's get out Let's get out Knowin' my condition Is the reason I must die Just get out

This behavior, for me, is evidence, not proof, that Jesus was real.

For Jesus clearly practiced a path of integrity with the whole. What he did and proscribed for others to do enhances the well being and integrity of the whole and thus the members within it. This is the path of light/good/benevolence/integrity/life. The behavior itself has the potential to create civilizations that last for a very long time, because they are responsible for their actions and their consequences. They are adaptive to their environment in the most productive, preservation based ways. Some call this the path of service to others. It has the potential for virtual eternal life, for a civilization.

The path of money changers and knowingly deceptive religious leaders is the opposite path. It is a path of self-serving behavior at even at the expense of others. It undermines the integrity and well being of the whole. This is path dark/evil/malevolence/disintegration/death. The behavior itself has the potential to destroy civilizations that have lasted for a very long time, because of the irresponsibility for one's actions and their consequences. Thoae that follow it are often maladaptive to their environment, exploiting it in destructive ways. Some call this the path of service to self, but I recommend the entire sentence, which includes "even at the expense of others", because we all serve ourselves inevitably, making the shorter phrase misleading and fear generating. A civilization that practices too much self-serving behavior even at the expense of others will not stand the test of time, but will destroy the foundations on which it is built.

Would you say it is acceptable to say that the path that Jesus took was similar to Buddha's way or even Mohammad's way

There may be some similarities. I don't know.

It seems to me that if you really want to walk the path yourself, being your own leader rather than a follower will help you find the truth. Then you won't be dependent on another or dogma to think and feel well.

Sorry to burst your bubble here guys, but much like the egyptian god Horus, the easter bunny, and santa, Jesus wasn't a real historical figure.

The earliest writing came about nearly 300 years after he was supposed to have been alive, all oral stories passed down from generations.

As far as we know, the first author outside the church to mention Jesus is the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, who wrote a history of Judaism around AD93.

waitin on that proof

Why was this posted on this sub? Not really fitting

Didn't you get the memo?

r/conspiracy is officially r/whateveriwanttopostespeciallypoliticsandreligionandjews

We barely get religious post and religion is a conspiracy.

religion is a conspiracy.

Please explain.

Religion being a conspiracy? The conspiracy of religion possibly being created by TPTB, religion possibly being altered, TPTB trying to get you to stop believing in God, and Bible possibly based on astrology. There's tons of religious conspiracy.

I mean some people think that it is, and it's okay. They're free to post here if they want. No one should dictate what should be posted.

why not it is a 2000 year old conspiracy

lol ppl still believe jesus was a real person? even on conspiracy subreddit? lol

It's likely there was a historic Jesus.

whether he was the son of god or not is a different matter...

bankers and rabbis

ftfy

the rabbis argued over who hated him the most, and in the end voted to have a known murderer released rather than him out of spite.

they are trying to make it antisemitic to quote the bible, no wonder, it is their own carefully curated tale of how they originally invaded and murdered the inhabitants of palestine at the VERY BEGINNING of their own fucking book.

to this day they claim it as their 'homeland' or 'native' land. so rather than deal with this they try to silence it and every other idea critical of them with some vague term used out of context(ie palestinians are semites, and that is who i am advocating for obviously)

this entire post is not allowed under israeli dictate, expect hasbara in 3 2 1.....

This is nonsense. We all know that Santa Claus is the real enemy of the Illuminati.

God preached against decorating trees (Jeremiah 10:2-5), and the Christmas celebration serves many satanic purposes. 1) It started as a covert way to continue the Roman Saturnalia. 2) Some europeans use Christmas as a covert way to continue worshiping the demon Krampus. 3) Santa is a anagram for Satan. 4) Little children lose faith in Jesus and in parental authority, because their parents lied to them about Santa all their lives. In summary, Santa Claus is hardly an enemy of occultists.

Holy crap. This is embarrassing. I have to go.

entire worldview shattered? happened to me too when I realized santa was made up. what else did they lie about?

I agree with you, but at the same time, I'm not going to base my philosophies on what some mythical character in a book did. The bible is the original conspiracy and anyone who believes that shit should take a deep look at what they think are their "enlightened" credentials.

show one piece of proof

The Synagogue of Satan ^TM

Who else did Jesus fight with? The false religious leaders. These men distorted the commandments, turning them into lists of confusing rules, with no relationship to the ethical principles.

i really, really need a source or two for that one.

The Pharisees and Scribes were basically the politicians we see today, outwardly appearing to be good, but inwardly were not. He described them as bleached sepulchres.

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men'sbones, and of all uncleanness."

yeah but, isn't there a more straightforward quote? one where he specifically says that " the message is clear, and those who twist it and overcomplicate it for their own end are bad boys"?

Matthew 23

that was beautiful, thanks.

And what ideology (not religion) was he pushing? Asceticism with belief in nothing without proof (other then that there does exist a one true "god"). Closest thing that exists to that today is Islam xD

Jesus says to love your enemies. Jesus says he has come to divide families. Jesus promotes the consumption of human blood and flesh. Beware.

hello AhuwahZues, our community hero, since i've gotten into these conspiracy theorys, I've been curious about the bible and wether I should get into christianity or another religion, so I'd really like to hear your thoughts on the bible, and religions in general

I wish you the best, you are the greatest thing that has ever happened to this sub, I'm sure all the real genuine people here appreciate what you are doing, much love friend

No he doesn't. Stop lying.

Yes he does.

Point to the scriptures that back up your claims.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. John 6:54

Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. Luke 12:51

They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law." - Luke 12:53

But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, - Matthew 5:44

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: - Peter 5:8

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/enemy

Synonyms for enemy

adversary

Yes, so, where is this Jesus flesh and blood we are supposed to eat and drink. It's symbolism for Him sacrificing himself for the salvation of the world. His body, broken. His blood, shed. They were eating bread and drinking wine. He used that as symbolism.

I'm sure you know this, you are just twisting it for whatever reason.

Luke 22: 14. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.

15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

And yet Satanists and Luciferians literally drink blood and flesh. It is the Catholic Church that does mock rituals of drinking blood and flesh while they also own the majority of hospitals and medical institutions in the world. I will also bring up that the Spanish Roman Catholic hospitals were involved in stealing an estimated 300,000 babies from mothers who gave birth. What do you think the forbidden fruit is? Do you think that Jesus did not know what the forbidden fruit is? Do you think it is responsible or rational to use a metaphor like that too?

OK, now we are getting on the same page.

Catholicism, the Whore of Babylon.

Jesus, the Son of God, the Truth, the Way, the Life. Men may have twisted the message, but they cannot twist the Spirit of Truth.

I don't agree.

Kicking the dust off my sandals then. Later.

BTW,

Do you think it is responsible or rational to use a metaphor like that too?

Do you think its reponsible to use the metaphors YOU use?

Is straw man the new tactic for the day?

Tactic? Strawman? What strawman? What tactic?

What metaphor did I use?

You mean your entire original diatribe changing the meaning of the Word and the teachings of Jesus?

Matthew 7:6 Matthew 10:14

See ya later, alligator.

I quoted it from the Bible and changed nothing. You are a liar.

You took one quote and changed its context completely.

You cant see through the false light can you Dayman?

You can't let it, go can you Nightman. Busy work? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzaVd6zl2bA

Thank you for further proving my point with your responses.

Sure thing uh huh. Ok I won't respond anymore and you are welcome to have the last word.

He probably thinks IASIP is some cabal connected to royal bloodlines.

Tell this to all the Joel Osteen sheep who just want to think about love happiness and forgiveness

First up. Any suggestion that the Conspiracy movement should favour one religion over another is abhorrent. This sort of shit doesn't belong here. Secondly, the modern incarnation he would have fought was the Republican Party. Evangelicals + Corporate Lobby Interests (Including banks).

You people crap on about this stuff, then agitate for the very evil scum you claim you are against.

Trump still has an R against his name.

Wake the fuck up.

The bankers have you convinced that anyone who even refers to Jesus is your enemy. Wake up. Politics is fake

Forced Christian conversion is not a requirement for a free society, free from Authoritarian corporate fascism.

Rule #10

Not a Christian, but Jesus was a good dude. Personally, I think our creators were part of a council who decided to make a simulated universe. The Big Bang being the moment in time they turned the simulation "on." After a war broke out amongst those forces, the "good" aliens sent Jesus to Earth to try to save humanity. Unfortunately, the reptilians had already sunk their claws deep into the Earth and the psyche of humans before Jesus arrived.

Open your mouth in any church today about Satan's New World Order, and the local secret society member priest/preacher/deacon/layman will rat you out to the government and your employer. God's only son, Jesus Christ, went to establishment churches (called synagogues back then) until they tried to kill him (Luke 4:16-29), and our modern Pharisees and Sadducees (protestants and catholics) ostracize true believers today, because: 1)) they can't stand anything but feel-good preaching (2 Timothy 4:2-4) 2)) they think prosperity is equivalent to godliness and therefore hold celebrities and politicians in high regard (1 Timothy 6:5) 3)) they don't really have faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ and are therefore hell bound (Matthew 7:23). Of these, those church attendees that lack faith are the saddest, because they worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

Ultimately, the Bible is the truth, and that is why the demonically controlled elites (Luke 4:5-8) made primary education mandatory worldwide and then banned the Bible in all worldwide primary schools. (Jeremiah 9:3-6, 2 Thessalonians 2:11) Truly, faith from the heart (John 3:6-7, Matthew 7:13-14) is rare in this world, but the Bible predicts this too. (2 Thessalonians 2:3)

He crafted a scourge by hand from scratch. This was a thought out plan too, not just something Jesus did at a whim.

Who did Harry Potter fight?

Three simple principles, "love God.", "love yourself" is number two, then "love your neighbor like yourself.". A lot of people forget the second one.

Up UP Up

Wasn't "brood of vipers" John the Baptist's line?

You do realize that Jesus Christ is God and that He will destroy all that obey not the gospel, not just bankers and priests.

2 Thess 1:7-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

But the gospel is simple:

Repent, and believe on Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.

Believe that He is the way, the truth, and the life, and that no man cometh to the Father but by Him.

Believe that through Him alone are we reconciled to God through the blood of His cross.

Believe that through faith alone on Him can our sins be forgiven.

And that forgiveness of sins is given only to them that believe.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

A hard teaching, but truth. Jesus talked about weeping and gnashing of teeth, which isn't a pleasant thought.

But Salvation is a free gift, gives peace, and true life.

"He whos mind is stayed on me, is at perfect peace."

"Perfect love casteth out all fear"

Yep. A lot of people speak positively of Jesus, but they don't truly understand what He taught - which was the free gift of salvation to all who believe on Him.

Proof that Jesus was a fictional character after all.

The more I know the more I believe: only Jesus can save us.

Yes but you are needed to.

Total semantics here, but a whip and a scourge are slightly different tools. A whip is looooong and with a single woven strand/tendril. A scourge is much shorter and often sports several woven strands, and the tips can be frayed or spiked.

Am Jesus, can confirm.

Quite so. The minute the churchians align themselves with the government or worse they have lost the battle and the war. It is a spritual war. More so than most people care to admit.

I don't know if it's Christian brigades for dilution of content or the fact abrhamic religious dogma is so intensely ingrained in folks that even those that feel they've escaped it are still caught up in its more subtle machinations. I could honestly extrapolate this thought across several subreddits I frequent.

I don't think he was either. But still, I think the Bible is important and has hidden meanings that are relevant.

He is still around and on t.v.

"One of foremost bible scholars" there goes all your credability

Are you happy, because reading your comments you sound overwhelmingly negative.

Do you hold onto a throwaway until the shame of the downvotes is unbearable and start over?

You really should try to contribute to the sub if you want to snark-snipe strangers.

PS: 100% God, 100% man. I know, a mystery. Tough.

Baal too. Baal worshipping Hebrews were fighting with Orthodox Jews to legealize land ownership. Baal means owner. Baal priests were essentially real estate agents.

Blasphemer

Rome funded the nazis. Rothschild helped the nazis. Rome has scapegoated Jews and Israel in a brilliant way making you think all the worlds problems are from the Jews.

Pizza gate.... human sacrifices.... that's all the Vatican. They're in charge.

Jesus really does love you

There are two different types of Jews... The Talmud jews need to be focused out and wiped out. This is the israel that consists of our government and Washington D.C.

https://youtu.be/cxcQmUwJWo4

It's all in here. It even has quotes from the talmud that washington d.c. is run by.

He was nothing more than a Zionist terrorist, fighting against the invading Roman authorities. He was executed for these acts against Rome. A Bronze Age version of another insurgent group from the Middle East.

That's what I'm percieving. Everything ringdls false.

he is the King

I'm not a fan of monarchies, the French and Americans had the right idea in the 18th century.

The Pharisees and Scribes were basically the politicians we see today, outwardly appearing to be good, but inwardly were not. He described them as bleached sepulchres.

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men'sbones, and of all uncleanness."

Cornelius Tacitus was a Roman Historian who lived from 55-120AD. In 115 AD, P. Cornelius Tacitus wrote the following passage that refers to Jesus (called “Christus,” which means “The Messiah”) in book 15, chapter 44 of The Annals after a six-day fire burned much of Rome:

“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.”

Despite the fact the clearly despised Christianity as a “mischievous superstition”, Tacitus no less confirms once again the existence of Jesus and His crucifixion on the cross, it also states Pontius Pilate as the procurator who oversaw the crucifixion again giving non-Biblical proof of Jesus’ existence as recorded in the Bible.

Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus, (61 AD – ca. 112 AD) : “better known as Pliny the Younger, was a lawyer, author, and magistrate of Ancient Rome. According to Wikipedia: “Pliny is known for his hundreds of surviving letters, which are an invaluable historical source for the time period. Many are addressed to reigning emperors or to notables such as the historian, Tacitus. Pliny himself was a notable figure, serving as an imperial magistrate under Trajan (reigned AD 98–117). Pliny was considered an honest and moderate man, consistent in his pursuit of suspected Christian members according to Roman law, and rose through a series of Imperial civil and military offices, the cursus honorum.” In his correspondence with the emperor Trajan (Epistulae X.96) he reported on his actions against the followers of Christ. He asks the Emperor for instructions dealing with Christians and explained that he forced Christians to curse Christ under painful torturous inquisition:

“They were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of a meal–but ordinary and innocent food.” So not only was Pliny aware of Jesus Christ, he also provides description of the activities of the early church. In a later writing he details persecution against Christians:

“Even this practice, however, they had abandoned after the publication of my edict, by which, according to your orders, I had forbidden political associations. I therefore judged it so much more the necessary to extract the real truth, with the assistance of torture, from two female slaves, who were styled deaconesses: but I could discover nothing more than depraved and excessive superstition. In the meanwhile, the method I have observed towards those who have denounced to me as Christians is this: I interrogated them whether they were Christians; if they confessed it I repeated the question twice again, adding the threat of capital punishment; if they still persevered, I ordered them to be executed. For whatever the nature of their creed might be, I could at least feel not doubt that contumacy and inflexible obstinacy deserved chastisement. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.”

So here we see that not only did Pliny not follow the Christian faith, he was torturing Christians and threatening death against them. And he even records that under threat of execution (just for believing in Jesus Christ as God) the early church members refused to deny their faith in Jesus.

Sextus Julius Africanus (c.160 – c.240) was a Christian traveller and historian of the late 2nd and early 3rd century AD. He is important chiefly because of his influence on Eusebius, on all the later writers of Church history among the Fathers, and on the whole Greek school of chroniclers Julius Africanus quotes the writings of Thallus, who was a first century non-Christian historian. In his Chronicles, Africanus quoting the historian Tallus, explains the reason for it being so dark during the day time on the day of crucifixion of Jesus Christ:

“An eclipse of the sun’ unreasonably, as it seems to me (unreasonably of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of the full moon, and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died.” Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18. Lucian of Samosate Lucian (Born 115 AD) was a well-known Greek satirist and traveling lecturer. More than eighty works bear his name. He mocked Christians in his writing, but at the same time provided evidence that Jesus really did exist: “He was second only to that one whom they still worship today, the man in Palestine who was crucified because he brought this new form of initiation into the world.” “Having convinced themselves that they are immortal and will live forever, the poor wretches despise death and most willingly give themselves to it. Moreover, that first lawgiver of theirs persuaded them that they are all brothers the moment they transgress and deny the Greek gods and begin worshiping that crucified sophist and living by his laws.” “They scorn all possessions without distinction and treat them as community property. They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time.” Phlegon of Tralles Phlegon of Tralles was a first century secular Greek historian born not long after the Crucifixion. He inadvertently dated the darkness at noon on the day of Crucifixion in his work, The Olympiades. Phlegon's greatest work was the writing of a history book, called The Olympiades. The Olympiades can be used as a useful means of establishing a time-line. We only have fragments left to us of this monumental work and quotations of it from other writers. One such quotation is as follows, "In the 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad, there was a great eclipse of the Sun, greater than had ever been known before, for at the sixth hour the day was changed into night, and the stars were seen in the heavens. An earthquake occurred in Bythinia and overthrew a great part of the city of Nicæa." Africanus quoted a section of Phlegon's work *as follows: "During the time of Tiberius Cæsar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the Full Moon." * Thallus** (Greek: Θαλλός) was an early historian who wrote in Koine Greek. He wrote a three-volume history of the Mediterranean world from before the Trojan War to the 167th Olympiad, c. 112-109 BC. Most of his work, like the vast majority of ancient literature, has been lost, although some of his writings were quoted by Sextus Julius Africanus in his History of the World On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the passion of our Savior falls on the day before the passover; but an eclipse of the sun takes place only when the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun? Let opinion pass however; let it carry the majority with it; and let this portent of the world be deemed an eclipse of the sun, like others a portent only to the eye.

Phlegon records that , in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth--manifestly that one of which we speak. But what has an eclipse in common with an earthquake, the rending rocks, and the resurrection of the dead, and so great a perturbation throughout the universe? Surely no such event as this is recorded for a long period edit:sources are the relevant Wikipedia pages on the authors.

When you say God here, and other posts in this thread, you're referring to Yahweh (I think). Yahweh is the God of the Bible, but not The Creator God. Yahweh and Satan are equals, both created by The Creator God. Yahweh creates Eve under The Creator Gods will, and later Adam. Satan despoils Eve, Adam marries Eve. Satan's kid is Cain, Yahweh's is Abel.

The evil acts in the Bible are the actions of an angry Yahweh. This is the confusion between the Strict and Angry God vs the Eternal Love God.

OK, now we are getting on the same page.

Catholicism, the Whore of Babylon.

Jesus, the Son of God, the Truth, the Way, the Life. Men may have twisted the message, but they cannot twist the Spirit of Truth.

Kicking the dust off my sandals then. Later.

BTW,

Do you think it is responsible or rational to use a metaphor like that too?

Do you think its reponsible to use the metaphors YOU use?

Is straw man the new tactic for the day?

I quoted it from the Bible and changed nothing. You are a liar.

knowledge of the human orgasm.. ? Pardon?

Matthew 21:12

Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.

"It is written," he said to them, "'My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it 'a den of robbers.'"

Pretty specific, unless one is using Jesus to prop up one's own preconceptions or agenda. Note that never at any point did he say "Forsooth, and ye shall not lend, nor shall you change money."