Moloch is not an owl and baphomet is not a goat with breasts.

Why not prove yourself right?

I don't have to I am not making claims that say otherwise. Also, take one look at any depiction of either one and see 1. Moloch has a bulls head. 2. Baphomet does not have the body of a goat.

Baphomet is definitely a goat. And I always thought Moloch was an owl but then that is based on the owl at Bohemian Grove

No. Definitely not. Since Levi drew it as that sure I'll give you that (still isn't a goat it's a title).

Interesting link. Thanks

No problem at all!

The owl is Minerva, Moloch is a bull. Also, I'm going to venture to say, nothing really occult happens at the Bohemian Grove (truly occult wise), imo.

I feel it's roots are all in the paganism of old. Probably a long practiced ritual among them hence the secrecy.

It's fair to say that if these 'deities' exist they're pretty evil. If they don't it still speaks volumes on the elites who practice. However I doubt anyone would practice something so controversial in the public eye for no reason- especially politicians and celebs that rely on the limelight.

Now my view from a Christian standpoint is that the gods of old, and mystic traditions that came with them weren't all bull. People worshipped for a reason. However I subscribe their gods to be more alike to demons than sovereign beings. I believe that since the world is in the hands of Satan these demons have actual power and influence in it. So it's possible the people connected to these beings are given influence through them over the world. It's possibly how they became the elite in the first place. Unfortunately they are losing their soul in the process- no one escapes justice; theologically speaking.

So Christianity doesn't have any mystic traditions?

It absolutely does.

Not all mysticism is bad but clearly there's a line between prayerful meditation and child sacrifice/orgies; generally the occult.

The mysticism of the pagans is generally demonic in nature; especially within the context of a monotheistic/Christian worldview.

Alright I was just making sure I got a little confused there! Was about to send you some Jacob Boehme.

Yes. Stolen from all of the other religions.

Wrong. Pagan practices added by pagans None of it has anything to with Jesus or His message.

Or they're both recording a common tradition. Abraham was following in a tradition going back to Noah, Enoch, and Adam. In the Bible, there were people besides Abraham following the Most High God that came from other places, like Melchizedek, or Job.

So glad these topics have become more common in the sub.

Quite the opposite. And the earlier you go, the more Christians were concerned with these kinds of questions. For example, Eusebius wrote a rather large work describing how Christianity fit in with these mystery religions.

I just wanna point out, from a non Christian perspective most of the pagan traditions aren't bad whatsoever. Aside from sacrifices, which Christians used to do back in the day themselves if I'm not mistaken. It's also hard to believe something is satanic when that belief system doesn't even incorporate the existence of satan.

Christians never did. The whole point of Jesus' sacrifice was that His blood paid for the sins of those who had faith in Him. So there was no need to sacrifice pigeons etc to cleanse ones sins at a temple.

Ah. I might be misremembering and confusing it with some of the more odd stories from the bible, I'm not an expert by any means

The Jews did blood sacrifice in temples at that time. These are the birdcages Jesus knocks over while berating the moneylenders in the temple. Possible you remember that.
In fact, it says in the bible that when Moses led them out of Egypt they spent 40 years in the wilderness. During that time, the people lost faith and turned away from God and again started sacrificing children to moloch. Acts 7:41-43

A lot of these people don't even believe it's Satanic. It's all about secrecy and using symbols with double-meanings to fool everyone. Mystery Babylon by Bill Cooper gives a good explanation.

Are they evil or are they negative entity? Not questioning your statement. Listened to some William Cooper Babylon series and he suggests no good and no evil.

Are they evil or are they negative entity?

Depends who you ask. Some people say it's things like linked consciousness , getting people to project energy at a symbol that gives it power.

I think there's more to it than that. That there are negative entities (demons) behind these symbols that seek admiration and worship because they want to lead people astray.

Check out Mystery Babylon by Bill Cooper if you want to learn more about occult traditions.

The Owl is actually Minerva. Moloch would be a bull. Baphomet is a goat headed hermaphrodite depicting the Luciferian creed of "As Above, so Below". Do you like vanilla or chocolate? Maybe strawberry? It's all ice cream from hell.

So who are the weaving spiders?

Minerva was the roman name for Athena. They are the same, just renamed. Both wear the helmet, carry a spear, both associated and represented by the owl.

Weaving spiders refers to Athena versus Arachne. They competed in a weaving contest and in a fit of rage Athena transformed Arachne into a spider.

Athena was a bitch.

To be fair, most Greek gods were.

So...Wonder Woman

The given answer is that the meetings at the grove are to be free of outside agendas and all present are to leave their "sides" at the door. I would add an interesting alternative idea - spiders are representative of feminine energy in the occult and the grove is male-centric.

nice

To be fair that axiom is not Luciferian. It's Hermetic. Much older than any idea of Lucifer.

It kind of depend on how you define Luciferian. The Hermetic tradition isn't particularly evil, at least in its earlier forms. But people mean lots of things when they say "Lucifer" from Satan, to a gnostic figure that enlightens humanity (like Prometheus) to... well, Jesus called himself Morning Star.

I agree in the sense that the language itself is vague, which means many things can be grouped into it. However The teachings of hermeticism aren't Luciferian or negative at all. That's what I was getting at.

A symbol of hermeticism is the caduceus.
Which is carried by Hermes aka Mercury aka Pan. Both mercury and Pan are depicted with goat-horns. Clear links to baphomet/luciferian ideas.

Hermes or Thoth don't have horns. They are linked to the origins or hermeticism. Mercury and pan are not.

Just because their equivalents do, doesn't necessarily mean that the original interpretation of these dieties have no merit, or are linked to any negative aspect.

Hermes himself originated as a form of the god Pan

Hermes took over the roles as god of messengers, travelers, and boundaries, which had originally belonged to Pan, while Pan himself continued to be venerated by his original name

Hermes carries the caduceus. Mercury carries the caduceus. Mercury has horns. Pan has horns. Pan was renamed to Hermes.

They are all the same entity.

That's fair. With that being said, however, are you suggesting Hermetism is Luciferian because of this relation?

Truly, I don't know too much about it. I was simply pointing out the similarities that might point to that connection.
I would have to read up on it to make a decision in that regard.

Hermes or Thoth don't have horns. They are linked to the origins or hermeticism. Mercury and pan are not.

Just because their equivalents do, doesn't necessarily mean that the original interpretation of these dieties have no merit, or are linked to any negative aspect.

Thank you for the clarification.

Hermetisism is Luciferian..which is an umbrella term for several flavours of the same agenda. Names of "deities' don't mean much nor do the surface claims of their various beliefs. Break these many sects down to their symbolic language and there is a cohesive pattern.

How is it Luciferian?

Molech is not some kind of owl creature, he was probably a hybrid-human giant that the Canaanites worshiped, who probably wore a bulls head. I had a dream about him that was very disturbing, but essentially rich people were hosting a party and in the back rooms they were bringing young children to him while he was chained to the floor and he would do things to them..

Lets hope it was just a dream

Mystery Babylon by Bill Cooper sheds a lot of light on these things.

No matter who these wicked groups classify as their deity, it all boils down to sun and moon worship. Catholicism and Islam are the same way; Catholicism = sun worship and Allah was the pagan moon god before being integrated into Islam. The Catholics helped create Islam 500 years ago, they're all the same. https://youtu.be/QCmSBfVXEmA?list=PL95B1BB23B7A3C795

Actually they all are worshippers of "Mammon" and any entity that is said to be able to give more of it to them.

Fritz Lang's "Metropolis" (he knew it all back then it seems) has a nice depiction of Moloch:

https://theredlist.com/media/database/settings/cinema/1920-1930/metropolis-/010-metropolis-theredlist.jpg

Are they evil or are they negative entity?

Depends who you ask. Some people say it's things like linked consciousness , getting people to project energy at a symbol that gives it power.

I think there's more to it than that. That there are negative entities (demons) behind these symbols that seek admiration and worship because they want to lead people astray.