Awesome, thanks. I've been deep into the freemason research lately. I think it ties into pizzagate. I'll try to leave some more info later.

Pretty much ever "conspiracy" of any significance is connected with another kn some way

Pizzagate goes much further UP , it's basically part of a system how the "families" ensure the loyalty of globalist leaders, executives etc.

Those who have all the fiat-money they need, tend to further " other " desires.

however appalling his crime

Besides murder and treason.

Unless you're in the commandary, then protection includes murder and treason.

Source: Freemason

Bill Cooper's Mystery Babylon will help you understand Freemasonry.

If you're looking for masonic groups, the Royal Order of Jester does a lot of blackmail stuff, and I know for a fact they are operating in DC. You can see my post here for more specifics:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/68bvwn/iama_an_investigative_reporter_who_has_covered/dgy7e5g/

I've been reading Behold a Pale Horse. You can check my comment history for my opinions and theories so far. I've dug up some interesting stuff on pizzagate too....still have a lot to ask / share, but can't type up big paragraphs right now.

Behold a Pale Horse is good, but just understand that Cooper later realized the alien thing was fake.

Mystery Babylon is the all-time best expose on freemasonry I think you can find, because it goes all the way back to the beginning of human civilization.

That's awesome and it's sort of what I'm doing right now.

https://whatdoeshistorysay.blogspot.com/2012/08/idolatry-ancient-times-and-today.html

It is said Mystery Babylon aka the Whore of Babylon sat upon the 9 hills. Some think this alludes to The Roman Catholic Church, others think it is Jerusalem. I'm still debating. Someone shared some info about the 11th horn with me the other day and I think it all ties in with the Mystery and what's going on in Syria right now. Since I'm still new to all this info and history (grew up atheist / agnostic), it's all a big jelly soup in my head right now, but I will attempt to piece it together in my own way, and I think I'll reach a pretty nice conclusion in the end. To really get a grip of something this magnitude I would need to place things on a timeline and study them. I don't know if I'll ever get to that, so I'm just going to share what I have so far probably, and work on it from there.

I'll add it to my original comment up the thread.

Also, I was getting a vibe from Behold a Pale Horse that the author sprinkled in some bullshit intentionally, and I haven't even reached the part about aliens yet. It's a thought provoking book and I think he did this on purpose, but I haven't read far enough to determine why. The first chapter was absolutely brilliant though, so I'm definitely going to finish the book and check out his Babylon series afterwards.

It is said Mystery Babylon aka the Whore of Babylon sat upon the 9 hills. Some think this alludes to The Roman Catholic Church, others think it is Jerusalem.

Neither. It's the mystery schools, Freemasonry, which trace their origins back to ancient Babylon and Nimrod. Read Revelation 18. This might help, too.

Also, I was getting a vibe from Behold a Pale Horse that the author sprinkled in some bullshit intentionally, and I haven't even reached the part about aliens yet.

No bullshit, he just got lied to and fed fake classified documents. He realized it later, and admitted it.

or he could be a freemason / illuminati intentionally misleading my understanding of it.

He would be breaching his oaths if he were a mason, so that's not very likely.

I'd seen the MASON connection, but the SCOTS part is new to me, and seems pretty solid for what it is.

On the hexagram, how were the points chosen? It looks roughly like Dupont and Logan Circles, but the picture makes it somewhat difficult to see clearly because of the angle. I think this would be better done as a Google Map, or an overhead view at least. http://imgur.com/a/BUAs2

The thing that makes me a little dubious on this point is that when I graph it on Google maps, using Dupont and Logan, it doesn't appear to be a regular hexagram, but is a bit stretched along the North-South axis. This could have song significance though. Maybe the angle means something. The cool thing though is that the Eastern intersection lines up perfectly with Thomas Circle, so it does look like the 1733 16th Ave NW is a significant location within the geometry of the city.

Good find, Sabre.

Very good homework, impressive .

These particular designs originate from the doctrine of sacred geometry , which can be traced back to the craftsmen/builders of ancient egypt (and further). That's why virtually all western/european buildings are designed like in roman/greek/egyptian antiquity.

All shapes used are very symmetric/even because they are perceived by the human mind as especially astetic/perfect.

The symbols, like the hexagram, are also deeply connected with the numerology doctrine. (Vav Vav Vav)

The owl is also called "Minerva".

It looks like about 66˚ for the base angles and 47˚ for the top angle. This seems to be built in to the whole city to some extent, so I'm sure with a little bit of digging we could find some theories about these angles.

http://imgur.com/a/VB416

This could explain why it's elongated, because it's actually superimposed upon a "squished" pentagram, such that the Dupont/Logan/Whitehouse are the shared angles of both. You would have to stretch the hexagram and squish the pentagram to get them to fit on top of each other like they do.

check out freeman fly. he has a youtube, and goes over this stuff pretty well. it goes so far its numbing

Let me start off by saying, I am 100% sure what this is about, and it has nothing to do with what you're saying.

Scottish Rite is a body you can enter after the 3rd degree, Master Mason, which is what the Blue Lodge is for. I'm not aware of Washington going above the 3rd degree.

The Eye of Providence was absolutely, 100% not a masonic symbol. It was a Christian symbol , representing Jesus, the stone the builder rejected being the cap stone.

The Founders were mostly Christians, and they joined the masons to pretend that the revolution was "approved of". Read Washington's private letters where he says he has only been in a lodge a few times, but then at his inauguration he's in full masonic regalia? Then Washington gets bloodlet to death by doctors who were masons.

You are mistaking symbols of the Illuminati, a group diametrically opposed to the masons and going back to before Plato, for those of the masons. The symbol you are calling Moloch (based on Alex Jones' intentional misrepresentation) is Minerva, the Goddess of Wisdom.

This is what Moloch looks like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloch#/media/File:Moloch_the_god.gif

After the real revolution, the masons and other occultists come along and try to pretend they were behind the revolution. Pike puts Illuminati into the higher Scottish Rite degrees, and Satanists like Crowley pretend they are the Illuminati, too. Crowley has things like anal rape and eating shit as a "Eucharist" as part of his "Illuminati."

They are "Christ"ian, you're right about that, the issue is: in what kind of "Christ" do they believe.

The US revolution was a dupe, 13. families were "fighting" against the British royal blood, for the right to tax their "serfs/plantation slaves" themselves.

No matter if they actually "won/lost", that war left them broke. This is when they tried to introduce their fiat-colonial script, which lasted just about a decade until they had to switch to spanish reales silver coins and then minted their own coins the REAL US Dollar , a silver coin.

Of course then the war of 1812 happened and they lost. (White House burned). The central banking system was introduced which made the USA even more broke. Andrew Jackson got rid of that during his term. After he died they were right back and finalized the system in 1913 with the "Federal Reserve act". The FED sabotaged the US Economy and led FDR to declare bankruptcy in 1933.

families were "fighting" against the British royal blood, for the right to tax their "serfs/plantation slaves" themselves.

Jefferson, yes. Not Washington, Franklin, Hamilton, and others. Washington and Franklin had been planning this for decades.

The central banking system was introduced which made the USA even more broke.

Under the 2nd Bank of the United States,people were so happy and prosperous that the opposition political party collapsed and ever just agreed to get along.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Era_of_Good_Feelings

Everything you're saying is secondhand speculation given to you by Freemasons like Andrew Jackson. The man murdered Indians and tried to expand slavery.

After he died they were right back and finalized the system in 1913 with the "Federal Reserve act".

You just jumped 80 years! Woodrow Wilson was a puppet of the British banking cabal led by Cecil Rhodes, the Rothschilds, Morgans, etc.

The Fed is a reserve bank, not a development bank like Hamilton designed. Completely different concepts, one encourages development and funds itself, the other encourages usury and punishes production.

Virtually all western countries are corporations of the Vatican, (Empire of the City), if you think you have actual civil rights, good luck (Lex Fori). Corporation stems from Corpus, which is latin for "Body". These "country"-corporations are nothing but further "embodiments" of the Catholic Vatican.

Your general concept is correct here. The US is under foreign control.

But i would say the Corpus is now rather a "Corpse" if you look at the economical state of the USA today. ;)

Of course it is. And if we go back to the American System of Economics that made us great, we could have 20% economic growth, retire the debt, and have 0% taxes within a few years.

Investments in things like 4th gen nuclear reactors, Hyperloop, NAWAPA, and an Orbital Ring space elevator would create trillions in free cash flow.

Spot on.

You are of course correct with the 2nd Bank of the US.

I'm aware that he expanded slavery, i never claimed that he was a "good guy", he was rather acting in his own interests which "co-incidentarly" benefited the US. Citizens, not people but the upper/middle class CITY-zens.

Yes, i skipped that on purpose.

We will NEVER go back to such an economic system which benefits the people, cards are on the table by now, NWO is coming.

Invest in Calico before the next world war, they will have an IPO in the future.

NWO is coming.

It's already here. The world is run by a banking cabal and a bunch of giant corporations. The shit about a single world government is an attempt to divert your attention.

We will NEVER go back to such an economic system which benefits the people, cards are on the table by now,

We are going directly back to the American System, in the near future. They will bend the knee or be removed.

The "people" who run this system in the background are far worse than just banksters, technocrats or corpocrats.

You don't even know what you are fighting. You can't even verify why you exist here. You could be a fucking VR simulation for all you know. Yer typing words into a computer and talking to someone in a digital fairy land. You are gonna be okay.

Its moreso world governance than world government

Knee Bendin' time. I have to be there for that. I have to contribute to secure a front row space...

Have you ever watched the youtube videos by a dude named marcus? he calls it servant king. I found it interesting. Long, but very informative. If you have a chance to check it out and share with me some relevant information on the topics you have experience with, it would be much appreciated. Very much into this history.

Check out this freemason trying to run the exact game I described:

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/105851347/#q105851347

First he says the Illuminati are the bad guys. Then misidentifies them as being related to Crowley, the pervert who stole their name. The correctly acknowledges that masons are fighting them, but claims they are the good guys.

This is, of course, hilarious if you know about Freemasonry's history. They did the Civil War (Albert Pike, Golden Circle, Judah Benjamin, etc.), World Wars I and II (Cecil Rhodes, Rothschilds and Hitler, etc.), Russian communism, the CIA, etc.

So the fact that a mason tries to attack them and distance himself from them, while simultaneously trying to identify them with Crowley, a known British intelligence agent aligned with Freemasonry and even Scientology, it becomes obvious.

However, to assume that the Masons and the Illuminati are diametrically opposed is wrong

You are welcome to share your views on the who and why with us. Basically everyone you've ever run into is speculating. I'm not.

After all, the endgame is to work out what's really going on.

Freemasons are the bad guys, the Founders of America are good guys. And there are groups that still exist that were behind the American Revolution. There are good and evil secret societies, and they have been at war for thousands of years.

First he says the Illuminati are the bad guys. Then misidentifies them as being related to Crowley, the pervert who stole their name. The correctly acknowledges that masons are fighting them, but claims they are the good guys.

I also believe that The Luminous are the bad guys. Parts of Masonry include an oath to destroy any work they do.

Full disclosure; i'm a mason.

I've never met a brother that doesn't spit at the thought of devil worship and (((bank families))).

Full disclosure; i'm a mason.

Let me start off by saying I don't hate masons, but the people at the very top of freemasonry are very different than most of the people in the lodges. They're evil, and they have been for many centuries.

I also believe that The Luminous are the bad guys. Parts of Masonry include an oath to destroy any work they do.

Yeah, they're the mystery school that freemasonry is opposed to. The question you should investigate very deeply is which one is the good guys. And be aware that a lot of masons have put a lot of time into muddying the waters here.

I've never met a brother that doesn't spit at the thought of devil worship and (((bank families))).

That's probably because you don't know people in the lodges inside London's Square Mile, like Quator Coronati. Or even the Royal Order of the Jesters, which runs blackmail operations.

but the people at the very top of freemasonry are very different than most of the people in the lodges.

I'm a MM, Scottish Rite(32), and Knight Templar. I've always heard this outside the wider fraternity, but i've got a pretty decent metaphor.

If a country's government is evil, does that make the citizens of that country evil?

The 1% are Lucifarian

The 99% aren't. Why does my name fall under the banner of "satanist", even though i've taken a vow to destroy evil and do only good to all men?

The question you should investigate very deeply is which one is the good guys. And be aware that a lot of masons have put a lot of time into muddying the waters here.

The waters are muddied in the US because Masonry in the US was hijacked. The 90% of Freemasons that never leave the blue lodge are good men, and the 9 of the 10% that do are good men.

Or even the Royal Order of the Jesters,

Shriners are a branch of Masonry that I am adamantly against. It was because they were cursing like sailors with no regard to taking The Lord's name.

I didn't learn about the Jester's prostitutes, human trafficking, and drugs until later. Despicable people.

Shriners are a branch of Masonry that I am adamantly against.

That's exactly what I was referring to. The people that run it are evil, even if you're not. They don't do this shit at the Blue Lodge.

The waters are muddied in the US because Masonry in the US was hijacked. The 90% of Freemasons that never leave the blue lodge are good men, and the 9 of the 10% that do are good men.

Alright, that may be true. But regardless of the origin, the people at the top are evil.

Have you read Albert Pike's bit about concealing the true meaning of masonry from the lower degrees?

lower degrees

Scottish Rite(32), Knight Templar

I own a copy of Morals and Dogma.

You don't have to trust me, but maybe take it from someone that is well-read in the order.

Mason's have no power. Fervor put against us is an attempt to protect the real demons.

Mason's have no power. Fervor put against us is an attempt to protect the real demons.

I'm not saying you personally do. But go up the food chain, and the demons are there. Lots of them.

I'm at the top of one chain and second to top of another.

Who would know if not me?

You THINK you're at the top of the food chain. Are you even a lodge secretary?

Let me start off by saying, I am 100% sure what this is about, and it has nothing to do with what you're saying. I'm not speculating, I know who made those symbols and why.

A mostly accurate statement, with the exception of the last sentence, which is in itself a form of speculation.

Scottish Rite is a body you can enter after the 3rd degree, Master Mason, which is what the Blue Lodge is for.

You're partially correct, as there are only three degrees universally acknowledged in Freemasonry, up to the third degree of Master Mason. All other degrees are either conferred by a specific rite or dependent body, some of which recognizing one another's degrees, while others do not. Most are familiar with the 33 degrees of the Scottish Rite, the 33rd being an honorary degree and highest acknowledged by conventional Masonry, the 32nd being the last 'workable' degree within that rite. What most are not aware of if the number of irregular rites with additional degrees, the most notable being the Egyptian Rite or Rite of Memphis-Misraim, having 99 degrees, a highly esoteric/occult-oriented rite compared to conventional Masonry, and one that was heavily influential in the formation of the O.T.O. (Ordo Templi Orientis) and AMORC (a form of American pseudo-Rosicrucianism).

I'm not aware of Washington going above the 3rd degree, and I don't even think the modern Scottish Rite existed then.

The Scottish Rite had its roots in the mid 18th century, and was largely restructured into what it is today by Albert Pike in the mid 19th century.

The Eye of Providence was absolutely, 100% not a masonic symbol. It was a Christian symbol, representing Jesus, the stone the builder rejected being the cap stone.

The 'eye of providence' was foremost a hermetic and Rosicrucian symbol, used by middle age pseudo-Catholics in the artwork of their cathedrals as a form of veiled symbolism, as was necessary at the time, later adopted by Freemasons to represent the G.A.O.T.U. (Great Architect of the Universe, e.g. the God or 'creator' of your choosing).

If you want to really go down the rabbit hole, look at Franklin. He ran one of the most important lodges in the world in Paris, and he had been in European secret societies like the Hellfire Club for decades. But then later in his life, you can read that this was all a ruse.

I don't recall him being the lodges Worshipful or Grand Master, though he was active in the Les Neuf Sœurs (Nine Sisters) lodge of the Grand Orient of France, from which he obtained support from the French during the American revolution, the Grand Lodge of which also playing a role in supporting the French revolution curiously. As for the Hellfire Club, it was known he had at minimum attended one of its gatherings. Anything beyond that is speculative, though it is entirely plausible he could have been actively involved in that group as well.

You are mistaking symbols of the Illuminati, a group diametrically opposed to the masons and going back to before Plato, for those of the masons.

I'm not sure where you would have heard this, or how you came to this conclusion. As far as I'm aware there has been no Illuminati group that ever opposed Freemasonry. The Bavarian Illuminati worked hand in glove with Masonry in its time, and actively sought to 'infiltrate' Masonic lodges to tap initiates, which it did successfully until it was disbanded. The Illuminati orders that preceded the Bavarian Order (the Alumbrados / Illuminati of Spain, Illuminés of France, Illuminati of Avignon / Swedenborg, etc.) were not known to be anti-Masonic either, some also having ties to Masonry if not other related orders, nor was the Illuminati Order of the 19th century (of Theodor Reuss and Engel) and beyond anti-Masonic, rather ultra or pan-Masonic, meaning they were a separate order distinct from and not directly related to Masonry in any capacity. Other orders that exist today that openly practice Illuminism, such as the A∴A∴ / Order of the Silver Star, and those with literal 'Illuminati' degrees and grades, such as the O.T.O. / Ordo Templi Orientis and AMORC / Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis, aren't anti-Masonic either, being entirely separate orders though not necessarily incompatible with Freemasonry either.

The symbol you are calling Moloch (based on Alex Jones' intentional misrepresentation) is Minerva, the Goddess of Wisdom.

This is correct. The Bavarian Order and the O.T.O. have had 'Minerval' degrees within them, as an homage to the Goddess of wisdom Minerva. The infamous Owl shrine at the Bohemian Grove was modeled, in part, after Minerva, as a replica of an ancient statue of Minerva in the form of an owl found in the club's headquarters makes evident.

After the real revolution, the masons and other occultists come along and try to pretend they were behind the revolution.

This is entirely speculative, and largely a matter of opinion. It's more likely the related orders, created by those who also created the orders that exist today, lent a hand in the revolutions you speak of, to further their centuries-long agenda of removing power from the Papal theocracy and monarchies in Europe and the Americas at the time, to appear as a noble cause of liberation exoterically however esoterically exploiting the masses to create a climate with which they would be free to arise to power, though that would be entirely speculative as well.

Pike puts Illuminati into the higher Scottish Rite degrees

There is a great deal of esoteric symbolism and philosophy in the higher degrees of Scottish Rite. If you find the time, I recommend you read Pike's magnum opus, Morals & Dogma, an exposition elaborating on a good portion of this symbolism.

and Satanists like Crowley pretend they are the Illuminati, too.

A few things: Crowley was not a Satanist technically, though he was certainly anti-Christian, and ever the egoist had embraced the title of 'Great Beast' (Mega Therion) and number 666 no less. That said, what he actually practiced and preached was not even remotely a form of Satanism. He was a Thelemite, foremost, a syncretic amalgamation of various currents of Western and Eastern esotericism which preceded it, including but not limited to the following: The Kemetic / Egyptian Mysteries, Hermeticism, Greek Mysteries, Gnosticism, Templarism, Rosicrucianism, Hermetic Qabalah, Neoplatonism, Alchemy, Theurgy, Enochian magic, Goetia, Buddhist Yoga, Hindu Tantra, among others. A majority of what Crowley incorporated into Thelema was technically plagiarized from the adepts and mystery schools that came before him, with the exception of some of the key aspects of Thelema, found in the Book of Law, a form of 'channeled' material in a sense (supposedly). The orders Crowley had been most active with either openly practiced Illuminism (the A∴A∴) or incorporated literal 'Illuminati' degrees into its curriculum (the O.T.O.), so whether he did so simply to overstate their own prestige or used the term as a form of technicality is a matter of opinion.

Crowley has things like anal rape and eating shit as a "Eucharist" as part of his "Illuminati."

Sex magick, tantric and alchemical, is a core though for the most part optional component of Thelema, outlined and required in the higher degrees of the O.T.O. which does involve ritual sodomy as part of the degree work, though I wouldn't consider it rape if done consequentially. Coprophagy was something Crowley was alleged to, and hinted at practicing, though it is not required nor recommended in the O.T.O. let alone Thelema in general. On the other hand, consuming semen and menstrual fluid in the form of a cake for example is actually recommended as a form of 'eucharist' of sorts, so you aren't entirely off base with that remark.

Now freemasons either pretend they did the American Revolution.

This is debatable and will vary from Mason to Mason. The forces behind the American Revolution, both visible and hidden, at least in part, were undeniably Masonic (Washington, various other founding fathers, Franklin, Lafayette, etc). Was this part of a broader Masonic agenda, and in turn of agenda of those created Masonry to begin with? That is also debatable.

Or they pretend the Illuminati are the bad guys, when it's actually them that are causing all the trouble.

Most Masons know little of the Illuminati of that era and today, or about as much as your average person on reddit, and tend to disavow any connection between them.

Hey, I never did thank you for your comment here:

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/67oe4y/albert_pike_on_one_of_the_most_important/dgry95a/

Mostly because I'm overwhelmed by all of the info still. I hope you can keep contributing to this topic because it is fascinating.

Glad I could be of service. Feel free to drop by /r/OccutConspiracy any time you wish.

Glad I could be of service. Feel free to drop by /r/OccultConspiracy any time you wish.

A mostly accurate statement, with the exception of the last sentence, which is in itself a form of speculation.

Once again, not speculating here, I'm just not revealing my source.

As for the Hellfire Club, it was known he had at minimum attended one of its gatherings.

There's a lot more detail in here: https://archive.org/details/HowTheNationWasWonAmericasUntoldStory1630-1754

The forces behind the American Revolution, both visible and hidden, at least in part, were undeniably Masonic (Washington, various other founding fathers, Franklin, Lafayette, etc).

They pretended to be masons. You may not be aware there are in fact two general groups of mystery schools. The leaders of the Revolution were aligned against the "Mystery Babylon/Cult of Saturn/Mithra/Freemasonry" group. A number of the Founders, including Washington and Franklin, were members of a mystery school going back to Plato and earlier.

They infiltrated the lodges to make the revolution appear acceptable. Read that PDF above, and then look into the history of the Bavarian Illuminati. They literally start in 1776 and take over a bunch of lodges in Europe, throwing everything into chaos and making it appear like the American Revolution is part of some deeper masonic plot.

Then, Washington gets murdered by his masonic doctors once they figure out it's a real revolution, and they're actually rebelling against the British system of oligarchy, and are going to economically develop the country and expand west. A few years later you have Aaron Burr getting Hamilton in a honeypot, shooting him in a duel, and then trying to create a splinter state to the west.

Later, British intelligence sets up the US Civil War (Golden Circle, Albert Pike, Scottish Rite Freemasonry, Judah Benjamin, Lord Palmerston, etc.)

They infiltrated the lodges to make the revolution appear acceptable. Read that PDF above, and then look into the history of the Bavarian Illuminati. They literally start in 1776 and take over a bunch of lodges in Europe, throwing everything into chaos and making it appear like the American Revolution is part of some deeper masonic plot.

It's sometimes difficult for me to parse truth from psyop (which is the point!) but are you suggesting that the Bavarian Illuminati was a good group? I thought Bill Cooper made pretty explicit statements about Adam Weishaupt being a Jesuit, etc. Can you clarify?

but are you suggesting that the Bavarian Illuminati was a good group?

Basically. It was an infiltration project. These might help understand their history, although they don't connect it to being an infiltration by the Americans:

http://www.illuminatirex.com/secrets-bavarian-illuminati/

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/2014/01/29/illuminati-conspiracy-part-one/

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/2015/02/08/illuminati-conspiracy-part-two-sniffing-out-jesuits/

Adam Weishaupt being a Jesuit

No way. Ex-Jesuit. The Bavarian Illuminati forbid Jesuits from joining, and were opposed to the established church.

Gotcha, thanks

That's an interesting take, though there were more than two mystery schools of antiquity, as there were numerous, coalescing into various currents and orders throughout the ages, the bulk of which making their way into one of the oldest orders, the hidden hand behind the formation of Rosicrucianism and later Freemasonry and the various Illuminist orders, of which the Templars, Sufi, medieval Qabalists, as well as the adepts of ancient Greece, Babylon, Zoroaster and Egypt, among others were in contact with in one form or another.

About your source.. I would advise against putting your faith in one source entirely. It's better to get your information from a variety of sources, to compare and contrast information, look for patterns and leads to research further, weighing alternate perspectives and checking for inconsistencies. There is no shortage of disinformation to be found regarding these subjects, some of it deliberate and some unintentional, those who have uwittingly arrived at the wrong conclusion from time to time, as those who have intentionally been lead astray, not the mention the number of charlatans and egoists who will claim to have hidden or arcane knowledge for the sake of profit and self-gain. That said, while I don't agree with a good portion of your analysis, I appreciate hearing an alternate perspective, and will continue to do my own research into these topics objectively.

About your source.. I would advise against putting your faith in one source entirely.

That's the thing. I had to piece it together over a few dozen sources. But now I know who the good guys are, and I'm not outing them because they're at work right now.

Have you read High Level Insider yet? It's that group.

That would be one of the countless sources I've taken into consideration over the years. I don't personally consider them entirely credible, but will certainly listen to what they have to say regardless. This is my own conclusion and I see you've arrived at your own, which I respect, but will encourage you to continue researching other sources as well to get a broader perspective and understanding of these subjects. You will find there are no shortage of lineages of these secret societies, some of them diverging, some concurrent, though at their core there are some key similarities and currents that have made their way into them either directly or indirectly.

Feel free to stop by /r/OccultConspiracy and share your findings any time you wish. All perspectives are welcome, no matter how technical or fringe, so long as we can keep the debate civil and are tolerant of alternate perspectives.

I don't personally consider them entirely credible, but will certainly listen to what they have to say regardless.

You have to do your own research, certainly.

You will find there are no shortage esoteric of lineages in many of these secret societies, some of them diverging, some concurrent, though at their core there tend to be at least some key similarities and currents that have made their way into them either directly or indirectly.

Yeah, it's all about symbols with multiple meanings, secret meetings, and coherence of consciousness. Meme generation, if you will.

This will give you a good idea of the broad outline of what I'm talking about.

Feel free to stop by /r/OccultConspiracy and share your findings any time you wish.

Oh, I love the sub. The problem is, I always end up reading some strange 16th century theurgistic tome and trying to figure out which secret society made it. :)

Agreed, in all regards.

This will give you a good idea of the broad outline of what I'm talking about.

I'll give it a read after I finish dinner.

The problem is, I always end up reading some strange 16th century theurgistic tome and trying to figure out which secret society made it. :)

The story of my life.

The thing about some of these symbols is that they were around before the Christians used them...

“The same sign of the cross that Rome now worships was used in the Babylonian Mysteries, was applied by Paganism to the same magic purposes, was honoured with the same honours. That which is now called the Christian cross was originally no Christian emblem at all, but was the mystic Tau of the Chaldeans and Egyptians--the true original form of the letter T--the initial of the name of Tammuz--which, in Hebrew, radically the same as ancient Chaldee, was found on coins. That mystic Tau was marked in baptism on the foreheads of those initiated in the Mysteries, and was used in every variety of way as a most sacred symbol.”- The Two Babylons.

https://whatdoeshistorysay.blogspot.com/2012/08/idolatry-ancient-times-and-today.html

I don't even think the modern Scottish Rite existed then.

That's correct. The Scottish Rite as we know it today didn't exist until Pike was done re-tooling the degrees, but the date of 1801 is the founding of the organization known as the Scottish Rite in SC.

Relevant username...

You're not even understanding what I said. They were not masons. They were infiltrators. Read Washington's letters, he barely went to lodge.

Citation needed.

Do you know anything about the degree work of the Bavarian Illuminati? Most of the Scottish Rite is ripping off other mystery schools, like the Templars, Rosicrucians, and Illuminati.

They were infiltrators. Read Washington's letters, he barely went to lodge.

Washington's attendance at Lodge outside of the times when he was busy running a country (which is what his letters cover) isn't well documented. We know that he founded one Lodge and was a charter member of another, so saying that he was an outsider is really difficult to swallow.

It's even harder with Franklin who was Grand Master of Masons in Pennsylvania shortly after that Grand Lodge's founding, and continued to be active as a sort of elder statesman of Freemasonry throughout the Revolutionary War.

Similarly, Warren and Revere were Grand Masters of Massachusetts, Warren literally dying in office at the Battle of Bunker Hill, for which he is memorialized at the Bunker Hill Monument.

Do you know anything about the degree work of the Bavarian Illuminati?

Yes, I own a translated English version.

Most of the Scottish Rite is ripping off other mystery schools, like the Templars, Rosicrucians, and Illuminati.

I think that's far, far too simplistic a view. All of these orders build and riff on each others' work to greater or lesser extents. The Templars' rites are basically unknown in detail (except in so far as "confessions" elicited wild stories from members under torture that were almost certainly written by the inquisitors), but appear to have been similar to most other chivalric orders of the time.

The Rosicrucians were a revival / reimagining of prior mystery schools.

The Illuminati's initiations were a hodgepodge of exposes of Freemasonry, Rosicrucians and other initiatory societies that were popular at the time that were thrown together with a political philosophy that opposed the monarchy and the divine right of rule.

top level masonry is satanic I've heard, but it feels like every big org in power somehow, some way can lead to satanism c/d? Something to shake our heads at or dig deeper into?

Bill Cooper's Mystery Babylon series.

its too muddled, theres no clarity of information

masonry is satanic

This is a result of the 19th century con called the Taxil Hoax. Leo Taxil, a huxter and self-promoter claimed to have gained access to information about Freemasons being satanists. Even after he publicly announced that he'd concocted the entire thing as a publicity stunt, and with exactly no evidence presented, we're still discussing it over 100 years later as if it were some factual revelation. :-/

A novel and thought-provoking analysis. Feel free to x-post to /r/OccultConspiracy whenever you like.

A heads up: I moderate and co-created that particular sub, with the intent of allowing discussion of any and every aspect of the occult and secret societies, from the mainstream to the fringe, as well as scholarly research into their origins (what I post, primarily). Any content or perspective is welcome, so long as it is relevant to the content of the sub and foremost so long as users are respectful toward one another. It's one of the few places you can find conspiracy theorists, occultists, Masons and anti-Masons getting along, something I at times somewhat amusing admittedly. By the way, it's nice to see you're still around and contributing actively. Keep up the good work.

I'm at the top of one chain and second to top of another.

Who would know if not me?