Property tax is not necessary. But be prepared for high sewage, trash, and utilities. Somehow the city will get their cut. But I do like the possibility that an old or poor person who has not even a penny to their name and owns their house could still live peacefully. Just without any utilities. And not have to lose their property.

There are solutions, the question is... Do people want to live that way.. I say freedom. But, someone from the burbs may not. That is the problem. Many of us do, while many of us cannot.

I say give people the freedom to choose. There could even be options. Pick one of several plans. If you sign up for property taxes you get various fees waived. You can either pay taxes and get fire protection or pay a fire insurance plan. They already do stuff like this with cops. If you have an alarm system you have to pay more because of the frequent police calls.

Yes, yes, yes. I say the US learn from it's mistakes and divide into City States. Much like ancient Greece, but improved. I honestly only see this as a solution. You want anarcho-capitalism? Cool, move here. You want Socialism? Cool, check this place out. You want Voluntaryism? Check this place out... Freedom of choice. This is what the founders got wrong, but maybe that was their plan all along...?

One of these days I should read The Federalist Papers. Apparently there are lengthy discussions about this. Some of the founding fathers thought one way and others differently.

You really should. I have my own opinions on this topic. But, I do think shit was co-opted. Some of the founders actually cared about freedom, imo..

So what you are saying is that those of us who live in the country are subsidizing the city folks trash pickups? If what you are saying is true. and hopefully someone with knowledge will verify, that makes me a bit angry.

There are different taxes of city and county. They have different rules. Generally the city taxes are for services and schools. The county taxes are very low. And your county may provide trash while the citied provide sewage. It's different everywhere. And the prices range from low to high as well.

Property tax I can see as necessary, if we are to live in a union made up of states. Income tax is not, and completely unconstitutional. Imminent domain and property tax do not jibe without a union. I think it's wrong, and am a voluntaryist, but, you need to decide what world you want to live in. With that in mind, would you be willing to accept the good and bad which comes from it? A question not many people are willing to answer/live.. Coming from someone who in the winter uses snow mobile trails, and we work as a community to plow what we can.

All taxes are theft and as a voluntaryist you should see that. If I live on undeveloped land that I personally improve through my labor and capital without utilizing and public infrastructure not already funded by a tax then property tax is unecessary and serfdom.

Also please explain how government is funded through tax, pays for property with tax revenue and has the "right" to restrict access to said land? All government property is common property, we literally pay for it. Would you accept paying for a vehicle you were forbidden to drive?

If I live on undeveloped land that I personally improve through my labor and capital without utilizing and public infrastructure not already funded by a tax then property tax is unecessary and serfdom.

And if I want to travel across that land unmolested, no one will hurt me right?

Depends.

So not everyone looking to share the resources you've claimed will be able to do so without you hurting them?

In order to share we'd have to come to mutually agreed upon terms. If we can, we share. If we can't we don't. If they don't respect my right to property I will respect my right to defend that property. How is this not clear to you?

And from where do you get your right to property? Do all individuals have an equal right to some of the earth's finite land area?

Here are my agreeable terms: I will interact with any of the resources on this planet that were here before any of us (minerals, trees, water). I will do so non-violently. You are free to do the same. If you harm me in the process of doing that, you're violating the NAP.

My labor gives me the right. My effort of will. There's more than enough space for everyone. Survive off the sweat of your own brow. If I have cultivated crops you do not have the right to harvest them and any attempt to do so would get you harmed.

If the space in which I provide my families nourishment has water, trees, stones etc that you covet then you need to offer to purchase said items or exchange different but equally valuable items. If you cannot and I do not wish to trade with you I am not violating the NAP. As soon as you refuse to respect my rights you have violated the NAP and I would be well within my rights to defend myself and my property.

If you think you'd have the time and energy to go around testing boundaries instead of providing for you and yours survival then you're free to try. I and every other free person will be free to stop you.

Good luck with being an asshole hope it will provide you with food and shelter.

My labor gives me the right. My effort of will. There's more than enough space for everyone. Survive off the sweat of your own brow.

But everyone has labor. Only the first person to get there (and kill off whoever was already there) benefits from the application of violence to protect property.

You mixing your labor with the land was basically you setting out booby traps, knowing that you could then hurt anyone who touches them.

What was to stop the first monkey to walk upright from blowing some dust into the wind and saying "anyone who steps on this dust mixed with my labor gets killed"?

Your logic is just terrible. Most of the world's population is landless and living in poverty, and you blithely claim that there is plenty of land for everyone. As if gutter children in Brazil can simply score some free land in the Yukon.

Fucking terrible logic.

Agreed. This is asshole toddler logic.

You quote monkeys blowing dust and say I terrible logic. You're have to be retarded.

You quote monkeys blowing dust and say I terrible logic. You're have to be retarded.

Lol sounds like you didn't understand very well. Read it again and see if you can answer the questions I asked you.

You need an education.

You need to learn how to make actual rebuttals.

Most of the world's population is landless and living in poverty, and you blithely claim that there is plenty of land for everyone. As if gutter children in Brazil can simply score some free land in the Yukon.

So where do you get the right to use violence against people who want to live on the same land that you decided to mix some labor with?

There's millions of acres of unsettled land. You seem obsessed with violence. It's not necessary to use violence to acquire land.

BAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

You JUST SAID you would use violence against anyone who tries to share the land with you. That's been my point all along- private property only exists through violence. Farmers genocided hunter-gatherers a few thousand years ago and you seem to prefer to pretend that you "earned" the land through "the sweat of your brow". It's so pathetically entitled, like a child who inherited a mafia fortune thinking they earned their birthday pony.

Get fucked.

Man Income tax is bullshit.

Thank you I'll see myself out from here...

well you could, just earn your income from that land.

I'd rather get rid of income tax.

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I pay a monthly bill for trash collection snow plowing and common area maintenance. As for water, that's what state and municipal tax is for. Property taxes are NOT necessary, they are modern serfdom and people like you enable the parasitic class to get away with it. Try educating yourself on a subject before making claims about it. As an aside why is there a gas tax to fund road maintenance when state taxes supposedly fund that as well? I doubt you even realize what you pay in tax and what those taxes are allocated for. What if I told you there were multiple redundant taxes on US citizens?

Fuck outta here with your claim about any "evil" being necessary, fuckin sheep.

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Hey pot, I guess you can call me kettle...

I agree with you on this one. Sadly I don't think you can repeal them at this point. I really think we should significantly work to cut them back l if we can't repeal them. Mine went up last year and this year by a few percent points. You know the deal, we need a park so everyone should have to pay, even though I will never visit the park. When they do these votes I just want everyone in my city to vote and have their property linked with their vote. If they want the park, the ones who voted for it pay for it. If they don't want it, they don't have to pay for it.

So basically, you want to live in a community and not contribute to the community. Let me break this down, you are not an island. No matter what you think, you share this space with others. You may not use the new park, but you damn sure benefit from value that the park adds to your community. You indirectly benefit from this. Just the simple fact that there is a nice new park in your community improves the valuations of your property. What about the ancillary benefits, that gives options to kids who might otherwise participate in more nefarious behavior if that park was not present?

I don't know where you live, but there is probably unincorporated areas somewhere near you. You could move there to lower your tax burden.

I have a few questions, what do you do if you have a fire? Can the closest fire department bill you directly for their services? What about the closest police department? Can they do the same? Can I assume you have a well and a septic tank as well? Also do you have 4WD, cause that dirt road is going to be pretty rough?

No one likes taxes, especially taxes on things that you have already paid for. However, you are getting a really good fucking deal. Imagine if fire departments and police departments billed you directly. That could get really expensive really quickly. This shit works in small towns and the reason it works is because the head of the volunteer fire department is your cousin. He'd be helping your put out some random brush fire anyway and hes family so of course hes going to help you and not try to fuck you over. That park that your neighbors wanted to build, it would get built even though you don't use it. Why? Because its for your nephews and grandchildren and your neighbors are your brothers, sisters, cousins, aunts and uncles. So you are going to build that shitty rinkydink track for your nephews to race their dirt bikes and go-carts.

Property tax? Not the issue.

1427 NE Holland St, Portland, OR 97211 3 beds 1 bath 1,501 sqft

FOR SALE: $320,000

Last sold: Apr 1994 for $23,000

Property Tax: 2013 $1,077 -25.8% $44,630 -30.9%

Taxing this property as if it were $44K. As it should be.

Property tax rates are going down. It's the price of property that is stratospheric - and this is the banks doing. First they gambled with the home markets until they crashed the economy- driving up property prices along the way. And now the banks are making a killing on the interest rates being charged.

Inflation will kill us all

If I live on undeveloped land that I personally improve through my labor and capital without utilizing and public infrastructure not already funded by a tax then property tax is unecessary and serfdom.

And if I want to travel across that land unmolested, no one will hurt me right?