I love all the Devils Advocates on here . All you know about Anything is what THEY sold you . As far as I'm concerned the only stance one needs to know is Propaganda is LEGAL . MSM bullshitting you is & has been legal . I'd rather consider some of the most Radical theories than blindly follow these fucking liars on ANY issue .

You think intelligent creation is for the WEAK ... evolutionist? Then why in the UNIVERSE wouldn't you consider Reptoids ? Get fucked . Snake symbolism EVERYWHERE, for Ages .

people talking about conscious entities & universal ONEness , but dare not admit there is some shit we just cannot even comprehend . leave your man made Ego at the door of your four walled world & QUESTION EVERYTHING

What would this accomplish?

Might shut him up for a bit at least

~15-30 minutes right?

But then he'd be telling us how he knows EVERYTHING now

...he probably will.

You will find yourself in the presence of many entities. Some describe them as elf like, some just a formless apparition, and many in between, but if you can break thru, the trips many describe, sounds like the veil being pulled back and getting a glimpse of the true reality that is behind what we consider ours to be.

This ? :P

Do you need us to call you an ambulance?

Monopolywitness gets it

intelligent creation

When I saw this I thought your post was a copypasta, with this being an intentional error like "gorilla warfare".

I'd rather consider some of the most Radical theories than blindly follow these fucking liars on ANY issue .

You do know the things the "mainstream media" say are verifiable, right...? There is not a record of them getting it "wrong" for you to assume some 14 year old's online blog is more likely to be correct than it. You say propaganda exists...where is it? Why isn't there a media matters like website calling out all of the instances of incorrect information (propaganda) the mainstream media puts out, especially since they supposedly put it out so often?

Your methodology or rationale for obtaining beliefs is extremely flawed and incorrect.

"There is not a record of them getting it " wrong" ... Find a short pier & take a long walk .

Tell me what they get wrong. Where is this record? Numerous stories are reported each day, why isn't there a website that catalogues them on a daily basis. Where is the evidence for what you say exists? Is it conveniently not being catalogued by anyone?

What would be the point? No amount of servers would ever be enough to hold data on MSM's bullshit. Besides, what they do is not blatantly lie to the viewers all the time (even though they do do that sometimes). They give half truths and then force opinions down our throats. They spend an incredible amount of time talking about absolutely nothing and dull people's senses. MSM is just a controlled propaganda machine. The real blatant liars are the governments and institutions.

With all propaganda it is easy to reverse engineer and see intent. What does the msm propagandist want us to believe? With Fox news, actual propaganda, it is easy to pinpoint and explain what it's propaganda wants us to think. Why does no such analysis or obvious intent exist when watching other channels, if they are also "propaganda"?

You have to look at it from a wider point of view. It's not really a "specific" agenda. It's the protection of the status quo. They want us to be OK with all the shit that is going on around the world. They want people to absolutely agree with the government's and corporation's stance on everything. They want to turn us against each other with racism and poverty. etc. etc.

Keep spending money on military, keep people in the dark, keep destabilizing poor countries and militarily intervening. Make the poor poorer, rich richer and anyone who speaks against that public enemy n1.

You consider any of that crap Journalism ? Wasted enough time on you . good day

I recommend you study some philosophy and develop better foundations for your beliefs, because we know a lot about a lot, and you shouldn't ever be just "taking people's words on EVERYTHING". The fact that you think you are just taking people's words on, EVERYTHING shows YOU don't have an understanding of ANYTHING, and are not thinking for yourself on ANYTHING.

Please tell me more about myself . This is amazing ! How much do you charge for these sessions ?

http://existentialcomics.com/blog

Pretend for a moment you don't know everything and that how to think accurately is a subject matter that has been studied and written about for thousands of years by the greatest minds that have ever existed. Check out that article if you want to begin a journey that will give you the ability to understand reality and how to ACCURATELY think for yourself. You can't think accurately if you never trained to.

sharing is caring

Its sad that comments like this are so down-voted without much engagement. I think the issue is a lot of people think the MSM directly lies about things. It is far more complex than this, half-truths and assumptions are repeated until they are taken as gospel, false dichotomies are established to narrow the range of a debate etc. Outright lying is so simplistic, if there is a 'them' behind the scenes, I think they'd be a little more subtle than that. Unless its RT of course then everything is free game apparently.

I think you need to further study what propaganda is.

Here's a start:

"information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view."

r/Conspiracy isn't some movement with an agenda. Believe whatever you want and don't let other people tell you that your crazy.

If you believe in a flat earth you are crazy and or retarded.

I mean, they're both incredibly convoluted ways of explaining something that already has a perfectly good explanation, which makes far more sense anyways.

Look left, look right. Now you tell me, does the earth curve? No.

Absolutely. Perhaps OP doesn't realise (or maybe he does) that whipping up a lynch mob for the "flat earthers" only serves to promote what is a fringe idea into a false dialectic. If he believes flat earthers are disinfo, then his post merely serves to perpetuate and INCREASE the distraction. Mission accomplished by OP?

gotta say thats true. I believe the earth is flat. but I was busy reading about San Bernadino until this OP distracted me and inspired me to stand my ground for Flat earth. i wouldn't have posted anything about it past couple days had he not brought it up. OP is trying to distract me from San Bernadino truth!!!!!! get a rope.

I don't understand flat earthers.

Step 1. Get a telescope.

Step 2. Look at other planets (they're round)

Step 3. Realize earth is a planet same like the others.

More questions?

The sky is a hologram!!!

Believing in a flat earth isn't the point. Convincing people they believe, and that they are us , is the point. Crazy by association.

And maybe we're in the matrix, but if so a smart programmer wouldn't leave a way to accurately test that.

It's a train of arguments that leads further into more convoluted explanations the deeper you go, in order to 'explain' something that is proven false.

Their argument is they are disks? I think.

The planets are discs facing perpendicular to the earth, duh

Further more, IF anyone wanted to TRULY PROVE that the earth is flat, then they would get a video OR pics of the earth from the highest point in the sky as is possible. If the earth was flat, we should all be able to see it, correct? Or Is it not possible to go that high without going into space? IMO, that would be the end all..BUT no one has done that, so until then...Its nothing but a theory. Simple as that. No amount of Youtube videos talking about distance and "the Horizon is still at eye level" BULLSHIT is going to change a damg thing!

watch a few flat earth theory videos if you really want to understand what all the fuss is about. all your questions will be answered and many more.

Same with 'No Planes' theory

I loooove me some No Planes!

Come on Lucy. Get a little weird once in awhile.

If there was ever a /r/conspiracy holiday party, you know goddamn well I'd buy you a drink and try and sell you some No Planes .

If there was ever a /r/conspiracy [1] holiday party

This sounds fun! Probably a little weird but fun nonetheless.

Put ugly sweaters on the invite and I'm there.

:)

Aww, I was hoping the "No Planes" theory was claiming that airplanes in general do not exist, and are part of some mass hallucination, and that airports are just mind-control facilities where people who claim to have flown in the sky were just getting into metal tubes and hypnotized while they were actually being transported via a secret network of underground trains pulled by giant intelligent worms. But, no, it's just another 9/11 thing, like it always is. Yawn.

Frankly, I'm disappointed in the batshit-insane theory people for not making a concerted effort to separate themselves from the various, generally hum-drum claims made daily by the "group X is taking your freedoms/money/property/brain/health" and the "secret plans of corrupt government" people.

anything beyond "the govt knew about it" is nonsense regarding 9/11.

That includes, missiles, thermite, controlled demolition and whatever else people want to proclaim.

Yes! Open-minded =\= making shit up. We have strong evidence to suggest that intelligence services were made to stand down and that mention of things such as the relationship between the attacks and Saudi Arabia were censored. That should be enough. AMuch beyond that is guess-work and/or requires the use of assumptions alongside very in-depth knowledge of events that will lose any and all casual observers.

Interesting that you would immediately compare this one to that. I think you are protesting a bit loudly.

INFORMATION WARFARE Prof George J. Stein, AWC Airpower Journal - Spring 1995

"Let us take just one example of how current technologies could be used for strategic-level information warfare. If, say, the capabilities of already well-known Hollywood technologies to simulate reality were added to our arsenal, a genuinely revolutionary new form of warfare would become possible. Today, the techniques of combining live actors with computer-generated video graphics can easily create a "virtual" news conference, summit meeting, or perhaps even a battle that would exist in "effect" though not in physical fact. Stored video images can be recombined or "morphed" endlessly to produce any effect chosen. This moves well beyond traditional military deception, and now, perhaps, "pictures" will be worth a thousand tanks."

A theory can be unbearably stupid without being disinfo.

I am against censoring their disinfo tho. since that is also their goal, make it all get censored, flat earth stuff, ufo stuff, moon landing stuff but also legit stuff like jfk and 9/11.

Censoring I'm against, but we get little title add-ons saying misleading, or debunked.

They can publish all they want, but it should come with a debunked label. The fact that this is done with many pro-PTB threads but not with flat-earth threads is worrying.

Flat-earth is quite easy to debunk. Give it the title so that others aren't able to dismiss the serious stuff on this sub by pointing to the flat-earth stuff. Like Obama did.

good point, I just feel it can be a slippery slope . . . don't give reddit an excuse to censor more conspiracy theories.

you go on a write your bible for truth and not truth. real thoughts and unreal thoughts. you go on and decide it all. you must control all others. everybody will think and speak only your pre approved thoughts and words. total control will be yours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ahhhhhhh, victory!!!!!!!!!!!

Or you can just try to explain how the sun changes its speed, direction, an area or illumination every day to fit a flat-earth theory and "write your bible for truth and not truth".

you go on a debunk is right now.....please I m listening.

Tierra del Fuego's longest day debunks flat-earth.

yes so true. They mix facts with fiction so that our alternative media looks bad.

Just like disinfo agnets like David Icke mixes facts like CFR , Bilderberg with fiction lie reptile shape shifters and moon being an alien space ship.

They cant beat us in a straight argument so they try to discredit us through other methods.

Icke speaks in metaphors. Look into the two bloodlines of Cain and Abel. If you understand what he is saying, you will get it. It's esoteric. If you wanna say that he is full of shit on this topic, than call Free Mason's full of shit and disinfo also, because they believe this, also. Look up the story of Hiram Abiff. Not sticking up for the guy, but if you truly listen, you will learn some things and can better yourself. Grain of salt. His intentions? Not sure, but, grain of salt and know metaphors. As for FE, well there is holes in that model/theory.

NOPE , Icke doesnt talk in metaphors. have you even read his works. He is baloney and talks literally about genetic hybrid alien species running the world

You're not understanding what he says and why he says it in the matter he does. I gave you enough. Research it. I think he is acting more as a court jester. You know, like in medieval times, the court jester could speak the truth and mock the king without out being impaled rectally then burned at the stake or have his head chopped off. He was a satirist/truth speaker, but was given immunity because he spoke in riddles and jokes. Which amused the king and posed no harm.

Icke aim is to discredit the alternative media.

I have read his books and he is talking about Draco aliens and other bizarre stuff. I very well understand him , he promotes that That type of nonsense on purpose.
David Icke's Hollow Earth and Reptillian Illuminati Nonsensense - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwfuFRQQVsg

For once I agree with Putin... Icke is not disinfo. He's just an idiot

Keep thinking that, you are the exact audience that is not ready to understand what he is saying. You're just as much of a sheep as the "sheep". It's esoteric. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize why he is so "eccentric" and why people laugh him off (they don't get it and wont even look into it, why he is still alive). Listen to what he says, then research the occult/esoteric history. It will then make sense. Most "awake" people will not do this. I'm a scholar of history and want to know as much as possible about it. Occult/Esoteric history, this is what the ruling cabal believe in, so I research it. I suggest you look past the shape shifting reptoids, and look into the two blood lines. Cain and Abel.

Thats such a horrible argument. Saying hes speaking in metaphors when he doesnt claim to. And its already hokey. Quite frankly look at how much he is out in the public. That takes something and most other conspiracy theorist arent as big as him. And the videos he has with the witnesses all look like they are lying through their teeth.

He is part of the disinfo campain. I can tell by looking at him and the way he is presented.

There is a big croud of disinfo when it comes to aliens and that type of stuff. And it looks like its most of the bigger more well known people.

See my comment and look into what I fucking said! Two blood lines, Cain and Abel. Fuck, don't be ignorant. Look into. If you do not, and only want to think 9/11 is a conspiracy, fine. If you want to learn more about this world, look into it! Fuck. I'm done, with this. I've given enough bread crumbs. Shit is tiring.... Peace out! Here is the fucking UN mural: http://thewatchtowers.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/per-krogh-mural-sc-chamber-norway.jpg . Look at the center and notice the children!

You missed the mark on Icke here. The metaphor comment is a complete cop out. A paid op who takes reality and forever poisons it with nonsense about aliens from Draco. He's controlled opposition on an Alex Jones and Piers Morgan level.

Don't buy into this known liar. The "son of God?" Perhaps another "metaphor? Fuck Icke.

Amen

I think you are putting up the same front as Christians when questioned and all they say is 'Look in the bible!' 'You ignorant fuck, its right in the bible!'

How about stop being mysterious and just, in plain language, state exactly what you are talking about. When you talk in circles you are no better than the others, just state your belief or case clearly.

I know there is more we dont know but is there. But icke is ehhh feels like disinfo. Ill stick with my instincts on that one. Sure its entertaining. But is probablytruth with lies to discredit and distrAct and discredit people.

Im interested in the Cain and Abel bloodlines. Where should I begin?

1. http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA093/English/RSP1985/19041202p01.html

2. http://www.rosicrucian.com/frc/frceng01.htm

3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvUNRekfEE8

Enjoy the rabbit hole! Take everything with a grain of salt and keep researching based on bread crumbs.

Thank you. I saved your comment. I'll look into this.

Your welcome. It's a deep rabbit hole. You've been warned :) !

I've gone pretty deep into religion and thus, im no longer a Christian Baptist. So I accept the challenge.

Are you saying he's a 33rd degree mason? Apparently they're all jester like similar to Max Keiser and other dramatic fear peddling types.

Icke, a 33 degree Mason? No. He just knows the same history/tales the Mason's know/believe and spreads it in a matter were, if you understand and do some research, you will understand also.

I understand his metaphors, I just thought you meant that his particular demeanor while delivering them was indicative of something in particular.

I understand his metaphors,

Do you?

I just thought you meant that his particular demeanor while delivering them was indicative of something in particular.

What? He speaks in riddles/allegories/metaphors, much like the bible, lol. God, people are funny...

To a degree, yes. I don't actually watch too much of him because I find him a bit ridiculous in his delivery and theatrics.

I just read something the other day about how high level masons are often kinda jester/trickster in their disinfo. I thought that's what you were insinuating. All good.

I've been trying to put my finger on the fundamental differences between certain people and at times have had big revelations regarding the bloodline aspect. Consumers-producers.

"David Icke Is A Piece Of Scum". William Cooper exposes David Icke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I8ZZ0g6mL0

Didn't know we had teams. Crips v Bloods. What side you on vato?

Divide et impera is alive and well.

You are the biggest sheep to fall for such a crank like David Icke. why does he need to be Esoteric ????

.....

Magic doesn't exist, and nor do shape-shifters.

Icke isn't disinfo by the way

Icke is a fraud and according to Icke Moon is also an alien spaceship https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pfl4prGZIY

Honestly we know so little about the moon and whistle-blowers have been coming out about bases and ruins. Everything we know about the moon and other planets in our solar system comes from a few institutions and thus very easily controllable.

So I think that your opinion is heavily influenced by the initial ridiculousness of the idea and not any proper research.

To be fair there is a LOT of weird stuff about the moon and alien spaceship does sound far fetched but there is one thing we can be certain about - nearly everything we have been told about the moon is a lie and the weird facts are being ignored and don't get any exposure.

What about the moon is a lie?

Start here

https://www.youtube.com/user/Crrow777/videos

Which video?

Hmm, start with this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3axPn65MGM

I can only suggest to ingest a lot of content on this topic and then decide for yourself what you think, or what you think is possible.

Also check out the Higherside Chats Podcast with Crrow as guest!

Moon is a mathematical miracle and has no place to be there. It being a spaceship is closer to realism than it being created by a planetary collision.

You don't have to agree with everything that Icke says in order to actually get some valuable information out of it, not EVERYTHING anyone says has to align 100% to your agreement without immediately condemning them as crackpots. Do some fucking research man. =p

Laughing at Icke I think.

I think you're half right. The other purpose it serves is to turn us conspiracy realists against each other. It creates a faction of non-intelligentsia flat earth believers who resent the intelligentsia who know better.

The intelligentsia are usually mistakenly killed during "revolutions."

Interesting perspective, thank you.

I think Flat Earth is great.

But I am secretly hoping this is some deep, deep underground viral campaign for some Waterworld/Truman Show hybrid blockbuster staring Jennifer Lawrence and Ben Affleck's beard in an epic tale about the Flat Earth. Anthony Anderson can chip in for some comic relief, I guess.

But on a serious note - it did get me to read about Antarctica and a bunch of other things I certainly wouldn't have thought of before. So I got that goin' for me.

there has been an increase in this sort of stupid b.s the last few months

they always have, the methods are always shifting, this seems to be the newest incarnation.

There are Flat Earthers. There are all sorts of foolish, gullible people that concoct ridiculous ideas.

But these people are used to discredit other people. Flat Earth conspiracies require no disinformation agent to invent, merely to exploit.

It is much easier to allow stupid and crazy people to do and say as they please and then just carefully spin it for the public than to carefully concoct these plots or conspiracies on their own.

Flat Earthers are real, and their theory was exploited to discredit other theories.

I agree, but the reality is that the theory has always been used as satire.

The myth that people in the Middle Ages thought the earth is flat appears to date from the 17th century as part of the campaign by Protestants against Catholic teaching. But it gained currency in the 19th century, thanks to inaccurate histories such as John William Draper's History of the Conflict Between Religion and Science (1874) and Andrew Dickson White's A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom (1896). Atheists and agnostics championed the conflict thesis for their own purposes, but historical research gradually demonstrated that Draper and White had propagated more fantasy than fact in their efforts to prove that science and religion are locked in eternal conflict.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth

It's still being used the same way with this revival.

Discrediting your opposition by bringing attention to their most absurd or extreme members is an ancient propaganda technique, indeed.

which is what's happened here. but the interesting thing is that this exact "conspiracy theory" wasn't created by conspiracy theorists. It was created by satirists to portray the church as anti-science.

you are funny. you are so sure the earth is a ball because you were told it's a ball. and you think you have to be stupid not to believe what you were told. you are told many more lies than you realize. some part of you knows this, and you are able to question a series of the big and small lies, yay --- yet still you believe the biggest lies without question - boo. believe the earth is a ball if you choose - but recognize you can't prove it, you can only tout that others proved it for you. recognize the extent of your faith.

you are so sure the earth is a ball because you were told it's a ball

Nope. I can see with my own damn eyes that it is a ball.

In fact, here is a video made by a family in Eastern Washington using a helium balloon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVCi4T2FLw8

Oh look, it's a ball!

Oh look its a fish eye lens. If you're going to be so confident about your "evidence" you should at least understand the distortion these lenses make. I'm not saying its flat but you can't use footage lime that with clear visual distortion on the edges as proof its round.

Flat earthers are stupid because they willfully choose not to listen to evidence in the contrary. You can prove the earth is curved by planting two sticks in the ground at sea level in different locations and comparing their shadows.

Also, the earth is not a ball. A ball implies it's totally spherical.

the shadows can be explained by a low sun on a flat earth. also shadows need light source in close proximity. any cinematographer will tell you - a far off light source creates atmospheric light and can not produce crisp shadows. by the very fact that we get hard shadow lines from sunlight tells you the sun is much closer than thought.

any cinematographer will tell you - a far off light source creates atmospheric light and can not produce crisp shadows.

Not true. You've got it completely assbackwards. What's necessary for crisp shadows is a far point source. Not a close point source. In fact, a close source is discouraged. Because it will create the exact opposite of what you claim, diffuse shadows.

The reason why is obvious. With a distant point source more light falling on the subject will consist of parallel rays. Because point sources emit in all directions as globes, and light intensity falls off per the inverse square law . Thus, as the point source moves further away, light emitted at an angle falls off the subject leaving only parallel (or near parallel) rays of light to hit the subject. And therefore, the demark between object and shadow becomes sharper.

Of course, also per the inverse square law, the further away the point source so too must its intensity increase by the same proportion. Hence the reason why film studios spend absurd money on electrical capacity and equipment to drive 10KW and 20KW HMI lamps. Because a close point source, such as an incandescent halogen lamp, will throw diffuse shadows. Primarily because its rays falling on the subject - by comparison to a more powerful lamp stationed further away - will consist of more angled rays thereby diffusing the edges of shadows.

Note that this assumes the light falling on a subject must be at a consistent intensity to properly expose film emulsion or a sensor at a given ISO value.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORqMQf8KK7Q

Shall I quote and cite my cinematography text?

sure -- if you have a quote that tells you having a light source at a further distance gives you a harder shadow I'd very much like to see it.

p.s, -- if you look at the video I posted above you will notice even the guy giving demonstration - who we can assume has no thought in his head that the earth is flat and the sun is low -- still creates a model of flat land and a low sun to demonstrate "normal" shadow. look how low that lamp is above the elephant -- to scale that puts the sun very close to create the shadows we normally see. the photographer instinctually know how to create the correct circumstances to demonstrate what we normally see - even if he doesn't realize what he knows.

It wouldn't matter even if the sun were closer, it still has the same amount of atmosphere to breach. While atmosphere creates some amount of scattering, it depends on the density of particles. This is why clouds make light appear flat and dissolve shadows. Without clouds, the particles in the atmosphere are thin enough, and the photons from the sun are numerous enough that we still get shadows.

Your criticism of the low sun changing the shadows or something is also a little flawed. I mean, for one, just do the test at midday and you'll get the same effect. For two, even if you performed it when the sun was low, you wouldn't get that effect without a curved earth. Otherwise the sun would affect all objects the same.

you actually would get the exact effect you observe with the shadows, with a flat earth and a low sun. I'm not saying the book is closed on the shape of the earth topic from that experiment alone -- but the shadow observation as an isolated experiment is perfectly explained with a flat earth and a low sun.

imagine a big room with a low ceiling and a lightbulb/sun on the ceiling. objects directly below the lightbulb/sun will cast no shadow, objects to the side of the room will cast a shadow in the direction away from the light source. now imagine the room is a circle and the bulb in the ceiling is on a smaller circular track allowing the light to travel in a constant circle above the room. there is your flat earth model with the shadows playing out as we observe.

Stupid non sense? What a sheepish statement. Nasa is full of shit. The theory is interesting and you cannot prove to me that the earth is round. I don't talk much about this theory in public because the masses are far too quick to judge.

you cannot prove to me that the earth is round.

I can. Grab yourself a telescope, go to the highest building you can find and see if you can see anything 252 miles away.

The moon is 252,088 miles away from the surface of the Earth, and you can see that, right? So a good telescope should be able to make out mountains and skyscrapers from 1/1000th of that distance easily.

If you're stupid enough to believe the earth is flat, you're one of the easily manipulated weak minds that the elites take advantage of.

Isn't the air we look through filled with tiny particles that wouldn't let us see as far as seeing into space? Doesn't the emptiness of space allow light to travel further than here on earth? Why can't I take a telescope, look into the ocean and see the bottom?

You have no clue what air is or how light works.

you cannot prove to me that the earth is round.

You're the type that will not accept any form of proof at all, so there is no point in even trying to prove it to you.

We could start traveling around the earth in a straight line and get back to where we started 25000 miles later and you'd still think the earth is flat.

go flat earth theory, it's a wondrous & legitimate pursuit.

Except a ton of it doesn't check out. The approximately 8" per mile fallout is never seen. The Chicago skyline being impossibly visible, for instance. A "mirage." The curvature is never taken into account for large scale projects. The Panama Canal. It's absolute insanity on a globe.

https://dizzib.github.io/earth/curve-calc/

That's a useful link for this topic, thanks. Do you have a link or further description of what you mean by taking curvature into account for the Panama Canal? I'm not sure why it would really be a concern; gravity always acts along the normal line to the sphere of the earth.

He's an idiot, so no he won't be able to explain it. He's just parroting stupid shit he heard and fell for. He's not smart enough to explain any of it.

Bare in mind that many prominent flat earthers misuse the '8 inches per mile squared' formula. Although the formula itself is correct, it is not appropriate for use when observer/camera height is above surface level. This video illustrates it well.

Bare

Bear. As I've said before, this one has been difficult for me... But with all these anchoring heuristics I have now, I don't think I'll mess it up again.

Understood.

Sorry but this post reeks of shills, I am a long standing member of The Flat Earth Society and regular at /r/theworldisflat . People who don't believe in the world is flat never want to debate or have a discussion they just chose to ridicule which is a tactic used be shills when faced against overwhelming evidence.

It is rather sad state when you just label something as "disinformation" because you can't provide your own evidence to support or disprove a claim.

What evidence do you have? Because IF you have real pictures/video proof that SHOWS the earth is Literally flat, Then you should post it. I for one would like to see it.

A good read - http://www.debate.org/debates/Scientific-evidence-overwellmingly-supports-a-flat-earth/1/

[deleted]

You know how every other sub mocks /r/conspiracy about 9/11, Sandy or any of the other crazy things you guys post here. You are doing exactly what they do. 1/10.

agreed. yay flat earth /

This would actually give some sort of reason to why this theory is gaining traction. Motive is the biggest flaw with this "theory." Every other conspiracy or media spin has a motive. It would literally be pointless to lie about the shape of the planet unless the real reason is to make alternative media a joke. I've been considering asking about this in /r/theworldisflat but they're pretty ban happy if you don't agree with their ideals, and I like going there for a good laugh on occasion. But since I've noticed a few more of them that I didn't have tagged in RES I'll get them as they drift through the comments.

I believe some of the Flat Earth nonsense is being funded by the Elite to discredited alternative media.

However, there is plenty in the flat earth movement, that really do believe it. I know this because I recently found out someone I had respect for has bought into it (or they were bought off). BTW, I was shocked because I never expected this person (background in science) to fall for it.

where can I get paid for thinking the earth is flat???!! have yet to get floated a dime for my newfound beliefs!!!

keep realizing super smart people are part of it, there are more "falling" as you so discreditingly like to put it - every day.

Speaking of which I first heard of them 2-3 years ago and it was baffling. Interestingly a plate has even illumination and a ball has its bright and dim sides.

Brah, holograms. Think about it.

Occam's Razor be damned.

Can you give me one example wherein a flat earth comment seeks to discredit 9/11 truth?

Your accusations are strong and slanderous. I'd like to see some evidence.

OP never claimed that. This sub is a medium on reddit in which a lot more truth slips through than on the default news subs. (Granted, there's a lot of bullshit here, too.) Look at instances on /r/worldnews where this sub is referenced and it's almost always derogatory. It's easier to dismiss this sub when there are flat earthers on here.

edit: grammar.

it's easier to dismiss this sub when there is lame name calling on here. it's easier to dismiss this sub when -- somebody wants to dismiss it.

if you want to start a new sub -- /r/onlytheleastcontroversialconspiracytheoriesweneverdiscussyouknowwhathere well you go right freaking ahead.

I didn't call anyone names (flat earther is just an apt description), nor did I even take a position on FE, but the presence of FE here does make it easier to dismiss the sub. Feel free to discuss it here; I don't even necessarily have a problem with it.

But what I would say is that we'd be naive not to expect those who benefit by deceiving the populace to sow discord and division among groups of people who would seek to uncover the deception. Being one who believes the earth is flat (a deception, if true, that would dwarf almost all other deceptions), I would think you of all people would understand that.

people had the very same feelings about 9/11 truth. (you sound crazy, you've gone too far) you can talk about Bush being bad but you can't say he was in on 9/11 -- or people turn away.

Well people will always turn away. They turned away when people said cigarettes cause cancer. They turned away when somebody said slavery was a bad idea.

New ideas are threatening, that is unavoidable. but it does not mean people should shut up about them - esp on a forum made exactly for the purpose of discussing uncomfortable ideas. I of all people know that - and I bet somewhere in you you know it too.

your assumption is that flat earth is a terrible unfounded idea. that's your right to think that. no problem. however -- I know otherwise. I know it has great validity as a pursuit of research,

I am not trying to hurt you. I feel super strongly about the importance of 9/11 truth as well, I am an intense supporter of that pursuit as well. flat earth is, I recognize, scary to some. but it's not a bad thing. any body who fears it sharing space with 9/11 should remember how hard it was to get a 9/11 conversation started in the first place.they should remember the very same things were being said about that theory. but it was worth it and remains worth it to keep discussing it. just because people are uncomfortable with a topic does not mean it shouldn't be talked about.

New ideas are threatening, that is unavoidable. but it does not mean people should shut up about them

I absolutely agree. I'm not sure if you're mixing me up with someone else because in my last comment I said "Feel free to discuss it here; I don't even necessarily have a problem with it."

your assumption is that flat earth is a terrible unfounded idea.

That's an assumption you've made about me. I haven't said it's a terrible idea, and in fact I've gone through the argument with several people in the past. Ultimately, I've not been persuaded, but I'm willing to listen to the arguments. I think free debate is always a positive thing, especially here.

I've not brought up 9/11 once. I think that if flat earth were true, it's orders of magnitude more important than 9/11, just because of its depth and far-reaching nature.

I don't fear it being discussed here, though I think we should keep in mind that people outside this sub will use flat earth as a way to dismiss the sub. If you are correct and flat earth is true, then it is only a matter of time before you will be proven correct. Keep in mind, however, that it is easier to introduce someone to deception slowly rather than throwing them in the deep end. Show political corruption, then media bias, then bigger topics like 9/11, and then someone will be more willing to listen about the argument for flat earth. I wouldn't have given the argument the time of day 10 years ago, but as I've said I've gone through several of the arguments in great detail.

If you are wrong and the earth is spherical, then flat earth discussion here very well might have the effect of limiting the effect and exposure of the other arguments here. I don't find this compelling enough to limit or squash the conversation, but I think it's something to be considered.

And finally, I think we must at least consider the idea that flat earth might be used as disinfo. In 9/11, I would argue no-planes and DEW are disinfo, or at the very least some groups are trying to use various pieces of disinfo to divide and distract the truth community. Maybe you think concave earth is such disinfo used to divide and distract the flat earth community. I'm not telling you to accept it, just be aware of the possibility.

Though we disagree on the shape of the earth, I believe we have more similar views on the validity of the discussion than you make it out. I will reiterate that I do not have any problem with the discussion on this sub.

I did assume you felt like the OP. thanks for clarifying. respect :)

I agree there is such a thing as disinfo, and I think it's valid to wonder if anything falls into that category. But I think usually disinfo can be seen for its intent in the way that it specifically corrodes a preexisting theory. for example I think the nukes being used at 9/11 is disinfo, mainly because I see no evidence for it, and so I think it makes the greater more substantiated arguments look potentially muddled. however it's clear that the nukes theory is directly inserted into the 9/11 theory - and because of this - sure - there is a reason to wonder if there is a discrediting agenda there.

but with flat earth, the theory stands alone. it's connected to satellites and nasa but also independent of that stuff too. the faked moon landing doesn't prove flat earth. in fact the moon landing could have been real and there's still reason to consider flat earth (tho it wasn't real) anyway -- flat earth is stepping on no other theories toes and certainly not conspiracy as a whole. that's my problem with these people claiming flat earth is disinfo -- to what end? who is out there saying I can't look into questioning the integrity of the media because I heard some people think the earth is flat? nobody is really saying that, it's not a true problem - flat earth is stopping nobody from learning about anything. if anything it's the least fear mongering of all conspiracy - and in that way we might actually be increasing the numbers of the curious.

but I digress, I hear you -- and I like what you are saying about wanting free discourse, thanks!!! and sorry to assume you meant otherwise before.

It's all good! I know what it's like responding to a thread where a bunch of people are making similar sounding arguments. It's easy to conflate different users' points.

And since you brought up moon landing hoax theory, that's actually what I had in mind in terms of FE potentially being disinfo. Just consider it from NASA's point of view, and for the sake of this discussion, assume Apollo was a hoax and the earth is spherical. I know you don't, but just humor me.

If you're NASA, and you know people are pointing out the holes in the hoax you played, you're going to want disrupt the skeptics' attempts at discrediting you. Step 1 in my mind is divide and conquer: get people within the Apollo skeptics community disagreeing over something. One way to do that is to take the argument a step further. Not only did we not land on the moon, but the earth is flat so we couldn't have landed on the moon.

Inject that bit into the discussion. Have a few of your people go onto moon hoax forums and start bringing this up. The first benefit is that the moon skeptics are now spending time debating FE, which (for the purposes of this discussion) is a red herring.

The second benefit, and probably the more important benefit, is when newcomers to a theory come to the forums, one of the first things they see is moon skeptics advocating FE. They might have been wiling to hear out the moon skeptics, but for many, the idea of FE is just too out there. They now associate moon hoax with FE, an idea they find so outlandish that they won't even consider the moon hoax because of it. Both groups are now equally crazy in their eyes. (I'm not advocating that this is even rational on the part of the newcomers, but it is human psychology, and those who would use disinfo are aware of it.)

Personally, I am skeptical of certain parts of the moon landing, but I tend lean more towards it actually happening. I have played devil's advocate to this position in the past, and just from questioning it, not even stating I believe it was a hoax, I have literally had someone say, "You don't think we landed on the moon? What else do you believe, that the earth is flat?" I'm not saying that anecdote proves anything, but it does to me demonstrate that if FE were disinfo, in this instance it had its intended effect.

And just on a more general level, I think FE could be used as disinfo for the conspiracy community in general. The same association fallacy (members of group X believe in FE, therefore we should not listen to anything any member of group X says) could play out here as well, just as nuclear 9/11 has turned off a lot of people from the more general case for 9/11 being orchestrated, abetted, or permitted by members of the PNAC and their associates.

It doesn't directly stop people from questioning other things such as media integrity, but I do think it (if disinfo) would have the effect of shutting down people's critical thinking skills. These people might not want to question official narratives anyway, but the association of FE would give them a reason (albeit irrational) to think it's not worth their time. Lizard people is another one of what I might call "general conspiracy disinfo topics." It doesn't directly stop any other lines of inquiry, but the association with other conspiracies acts as one more deterrent for people to look.

I hear what you are saying. And I can understand that it could be reasonable to wonder about those things.

However - the backlash to flat earth is pretty unique, I think. For example I think there are no aliens I think area 51 talk is boring and not relevant to important research, but I never tell the people who bring it up that they are trying to ruin conspiracy for the rest of us, in fact I feel zero anger or fear about it at all - I just think they are wrong. And it doesn't turn me off to investigating topics that do interest me. When was the last time you walked into a book store - saw one book on a shelf that looked awful to you - and decided you would never read anything else in the store? Intelligent people just don't respond that way, they are comfortable not having interest in certain topics while perusing others.

Why suddenly flat earth is seen as this big exception --- so freaking "distracting" nobody can reasonably approach any other topic regardless in their interest in it -- it's just really not real, imo. I gotta state -- I just do not think it is happening like that for anybody, and I think it's just kind of this fallacy of trash talk for flat earth - if you can't discredit the theory discredit the intent behind it. And people will say it's already discredited -- but that's a fantasy too. The theory would not be spreading like it is -- if it didn't make a whole lot of sense.

People love to throw up limits on what's true and not true all the time but come on -- really? You can take the conspiracy theorist out of the establishment but you can't take the establishment out of the conspiracy theorists? I say to them -- Live a little - everybody has their own capacity for exploration you don't need to keep others from going where you do not want to go, recognize you do not know the limits of the questions you could be asking. Nobody does.

Intelligent people just don't respond that way, they are comfortable not having interest in certain topics while perusing others.

I think you just nailed it.

It is somewhat interesting that FE does appear to be singled out in this respect, though it could be confirmation bias, that you notice it more because it's one of your personal interests. Nuclear 9/11 blew up in a quite similar way on this sub a few months ago, and one poster whom I respect quite a bit got banned from here over it. So I'm not sure FE is the only exception, though it does attract a large amount of vitriol for sure.

Great last paragraph, couldn't have said it better.

:)

hmmI missed the whole nuclear debate on here - I just knew it was a theory I didn't think way in any way true, did your friend get banned for believing it?

I realize flat earth is the most "out there/ unexpected " conspiracy that theory at least I have come across. And yet months of research has -- changed me forever to believe it, at least to believe with certainly we are not a spinning ball/ and that flat is the best explanation until we figure out more. And I am so certain it really feels enlightening and wonderful.

But for those who can't see it - I'm sure it's baffling as hell so many people are discussing it.

But they need to straighten up and be respectful anyway :0

even with no mutual resolution re: the truth or untruth of theory. I mean I have on loss of respect for people who think it's a ball. I get why they think it, I just disagree, bot no fear or anger is any part of it.

Anyway - -thanks for nice conversation!!!!

Happy holidays :)

Likewise.

I'm willing to go through some of it again. Give me some links to what you feel are maybe the three most compelling arguments that you have not seen a good rebuttal to, and I'll try to get through it over the holidays.

I much prefer text to video, though if there's an argument for which you can't find a good text source a video will do, but again preferably one that only speaks to one specific argument (or just link me a segment, I hate listening to those drawn out docs that don't get to the point). I would find an argument compelling that uses as much actual mathematics to support it as possible.

I'm not sure when I'll get back to you on this because when I look at something like this I like to really engross myself in it, but I'll commit to giving you some type of response by the first week of the new year.

Happy holidays to you too :)

I like watch videos, so I'm not sure what are the best text documents. But there is a guy who posts videos his first one is called Balls out physics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGE2-USFbwo

I think he actually makes a couple errors in his first video but he later discusses it in another video, but most of what he is saying is really strong. he's a smart reasonable guy talking about being an engineer and looking into flat earth theory expecting to debunk it - and how it blew him away with making him realize it might be true, he uses a while board and goes through a physics explanation of why he is changing his mind.

and then there is this to read:

http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html

this is kind of a starter on the basics of the reasons to question. there is a top of stuff - for me no matter how compelling the first stuff I watched was -- i have to keep watching for a while before I let myself really open to it. it was only that i was enough curious each time - to go further. but I like that first balls out physics guy because for me he really encapsulates the emotion I felt too -- like just like giggling -- I never ever ever thought I'd think this -- but I now think this -- wow.

here is one that might not do it for you at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJOB0vcZ4NI

it's a radio show with no visuals and super long. but maybe if you have a long drive or something... I love it, it's this navy missile instructor talking about how he realized he thought the world was flat - after thinking he would easily disprove the theory.

it's these really smart people with specialties -- realizing -- and changing their minds - -that I like to listen to, but there's so many ways to approach the topic. if any little part of it sparks your interest, more in that direction is always a google search away.

and one that is all math:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFxsjOqY-xQ

thanks for your curiosity!!!!! :)

edit: as I get sleepy my grammar goes from bad to worse :) to bed for me. have a good night.

That's not how slander works, Einstein.

slan·der ˈslandər/Submit nounLAW 1. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation. "he is suing the TV network for slander" verb verb: slander; 3rd person present: slanders; past tense: slandered; past participle: slandered; gerund or present participle: slandering 1. make false and damaging statements about (someone). "they were accused of slandering the head of state" synonyms: defame (someone's character), blacken someone's name, tell lies about, speak ill/evil of, sully someone's reputation, libel, smear, cast aspersions on, spread scandal about, besmirch, tarnish, taint; More

OP is accusing me, as somebody who believes the earth is flat and has the nerve to discuss my thoughts here on this discussion board as seeking to ward people away from learning about 9/11 truth. 9/11 truth is extremely important and the accusation I am trying to keep people from it is extremely slanderous. And I want evidence.

Slander is for spoken defamation, you mean libel.

First of all, it isn't singling you out specifically.

Second, it's an opinion. I can't sue you for libel if you make a blog saying that I am dumb because I like pizza. You can't sue me for saying that I think you specifically are an idiot, which I do.

Third, if this was a real situation and you were being singled out specifically, the burden of proof would be on you to show that a statement somehow hurt your livelihood or reputation. If I said publicly that a famous person was convicted of child molestation and they weren't, I'd be open to a defamation lawsuit. I wouldn't be if I said the same person is stupid for being a Cubs fan. Get it?

OP has no legal compulsion to provide you with evidence that he thinks you're an idiot, and neither do I. But I may do so for fun if you wish.

Feel free to consult a lawyer on all this.

I do not plan to sue OP ha ha. Or you. And I actually support your freedom to say anything you want on here however slanderous, However it is still slanderous even if I have no legal action grounds or intent. I believe the Earth is Flat, I post about it sometimes. I also believe 9/11 was an inside job, I post about that sometimes too, I post about all sorts of things. but OP is trying to say that because I post about Flat Earth I am an enemy to other truth and that I am seeking to discredit other truth, this is a slander on my intent. It is a slander on all Flat Earther's intent. And I'm asking for evidence because I'm drawing attention to the fact that there is no evidence that flat earth's seek to discredit 9/11 truth, it is simply not true. I'd say 99% of all people considering flat earth also believe 9/11 was an inside job. In many ways 9/11 is the starter conspiracy - if you can get through that one you usually start looking at the others, people then gather more in their thinking or stick with just the one -- but flat earth tends to be way down the line. You've got to have made about ~20 realizations before you get there, but 9/11 is usually the starter. So to say flat earth's are here to discredit 9/11 is ridiculous. It's simply not true. We are just going deeper, but we got your back on 9/11 weather you like us or not. And it would be nice to recognize that we have that common ground and not insist we are against something very important - that we are actually strongly for.

Again: you mean libel. Which it isn't, as a reddit post calling your belief system dumb does not tangibly harm you specifically in any way.

I don't care if you are sure the earth is not flat/ my idea is dumb - good for you whatever - it is the talk of my intent that bothers me - they are saying I have a horrific intent - which is to discredit 9/11 truth. this is the slander - accusing me of having that intent. or libel. I don't care what the precise term is. it's a lie. it's painting me in a negative untrue light. and it should be defended with evidence, but it can't be because it's an unfounded accusation.

you are sure I am wrong to think the earth is flat - good on you think what you like about the earth it is yours to comprehend as much as it is mine. you want t say I'm doing something I am not doing -- no. that's not ok. I know my intent and if you want to misconstrue my intent you prove your statements with evidence.

in short - if you are going to talk sht about my motivations for discussing flat earth back that sht up with some proof.

You are all losers and sheep! The earth is a hollow flat and the space lizards cabal are using Denver airport as their stargate.

We are smart enough to see through your pathetic attempt to paint flat earth as disinfo in order to hide the truth.

grabs popcorn

Obviously, same with crap about "mini-nukes of 9/11," crap by Judith Wood, and crazy religious nonsense about "Satan" and the "Vatican Freemasons."

/r/conspiracy will always be plagued by spammers spamming nonsense because otherwise it might bring too much attention to the "real conspiracies."

I don't have a solution, but it's obvious what the problem is.

You made good point Jack. Create hundrerds of theories to Dilute the true facts with hundreds of conspiracies and the few true facts are lost in the conspiracy web.

The 9/11 truth movement is a prime target for disinformation, infiltration, and other forms of sabotage by forces who do not want the public asking difficult questions about 9/11. Believers of the official story may see the discussion of disinformation as further evidence of “paranoia,” but objective observers and researchers recognize the clear evidence of disinformation. Disinformation and counterintelligence sabotage have long been used by government authorities in subverting progressive groups and causes

Agents of disinformation may not “play their hand” until the right moment and much disinformation is carefully crafted to appear legitimate. Misleading evidence is often delivered alongside accurate information. On the other hand, some disinformation promotes ridiculous claims and behavior in order to sow confusion and undermine credibility.

http://www.truthmove.org/content/disinformation/

You commented to yourself..... Before you say, I posted this, and didn't want to edit, both posts were made 2 hours ago. You could've just edited.... Forget to switch accounts??

Get r/conspiracy to think they're being labeled crazy due to some out-there flat Earth conspiracy. Then lump together some other conspiracy's to condition you that they are also equally as crazy.

Hmm... It's starting to look like a little bit of an operation going on in here.

Jacky boy does like to lump things together. Shit is golden: https://web.archive.org/web/20151221082200/https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3xnxvh/people_flat_earth_conspiracys_are_nothing_more/cy6dwcu?context=3 . Archiving, because, why not.

you are dumb , anyone can see I was elaborating.

lol. K!

That's exactly the point, and they are doing a great job of it.

I don't have a solution

/r/Trueconspiracy ?

There is so much wrong with your comment and how you combine so many different things and lump them together. Your agenda is clear as glass, Jacky boy....

mini nukes are a lie. flat earth is real.

You don't even understand the point of flat earth yet, do you? It's actually a debate club. Sorta like fight club nobody talks about it.

Some of you on here really think you're proper clued up, lol

Your brain ain't big enough for more than one question at a time, is that it? I'm sorry for you.

Many people, unlike yourself, can handle multiple mysteries.

Now you step aside with your one lane thinking.

You may think 9/11 is the only deception to uncover, but Don't you hold anybody else back just because they have the guts to continue questioning and you've learned all you wish to discover.

Yabba dabba doo

Why are you all so suddenly insecure about 9/11 truth?? the facts are so plentiful and solid that there was a cover up. it does not matter what shape the world is jet fuel will never turn steel beams into flowing liquid molten lava. FREAKING RELAX. 9/11 is an inside job. it's a fact, flat earthers are not trying to take anything from you, and they aren't taking anything from you. They can't take anything from you. I hate the word -- but you really are being paranoid.

Flat earth is a legitimate theory. And it causes you no harm. Nor does it threaten 9/11 truth in any manner. We are all in this together weather is drives you fcking nuts to have to share the conversation or not.

Flat earth is a legitimate theory.

No, it isn't, it's retarded bullshit. Anyone that has ever flown in a commercial airliner knows the world is not flat.

get over yourself. you are the disinformation/ flat earth is real.

I beg to differ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLTF4-D4EXs

Asking multiple times as you've still not responded:

I'm curious. If the world is flat, does it end? Are there edges we can walk to and fall off? Or does this flat earth continue indefinitely? If the earth is not flat, how can an airliner take of from New York and fly east or west to get to Russia? If it was flat, wouldn't the airline only be able to fly one direction?

It's what I really believe and it is COOL.

Its obvious you have not looked at the points, just made a sweeping judgement. But hey, your opinion.

Some people have two!

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Actually, it's far more likely that he has looked into this, since flat earth requires you to bend so many laws and ignore so much information that it's more than a little ridiculous.

flat earth requires you to bend so many laws and ignore so much information

What ones?

Well for starters, a huge problem with flat earth theory is that they use the logic "earth must be flat, therefore NASA is lying, therefore any evidence that disagrees can be immediately discarded". It also requires you to ignore things like magnetic fields, gravity, earthquakes, the many tests that have shown the earth is round, etc...

You can check out some info on r/aflatearth

What's these tests that have shown the earth is a spinning ball?

Aside from pretty much everything we've done in space so far? Since orbital mechanics becomes literally impossible if earth is flat not to mention the many satellites up there that disprove flat earth theory. Things going as far back as Aristotle. For example, he claimed that the earth was a sphere using the arguments of the shape of earth's shadow during a lunar eclipse not working, since if Earth was a sphere, the shadow would usually be elongated whenever the moon is not directly overhead. He also pointed out that as you travel north/south, different stars start to appear, which could only happen if earth was a sphere. I can add more if you'd like.

Have a read through a few of these, or watch, up to you. Short bullet points, maybe you will get something out of it.

200 Proofs Earth is Not a Spinning Ball

http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html

https://youtu.be/h5i_iDyUTCg

1) The horizon always appears perfectly flat 360 degrees around the observer regardless of altitude. All amateur balloon, rocket, plane and drone footage show a completely flat horizon over 20+ miles high. Only NASA and other government “space agencies” show curvature in their fake CGI photos/videos.

That's already explained. The earth is quite large, so to see a very noticeable curvature, you either need to be quite high, or better yet look at an object go below the horizon. And the important part of that was the word "appears". If the Earth were truly flat, there would not even be a horizon, it would just stretch on. Say you're out on a beach and you see a fait shape beyond the horizon. It approaches you, and gets larger, but more importantly, you can start to see more of it as it's rising over the horizon.

2) The horizon always rises to the eye level of the observer as altitude is gained, so you never have to look down to see it. If Earth were in fact a globe, no matter how large, as you ascended the horizon would stay fixed and the observer / camera would have to tilt looking down further and further to see it.

No? That's not how that works at all. The horizon is just the distance where the curvature of the earth becomes too much to be able to see past, and as you get higher up, you'd expect the horizon to get further and further away as you ho have a better angle to see.

3) The natural physics of water is to find and maintain its level. If Earth were a giant sphere tilted, wobbling and hurdling through infinite space then truly flat, consistently level surfaces would not exist here. But since Earth is in fact an extended flat plane, this fundamental physical property of fluids finding and remaining level is consistent with experience and common sense.

Well firstly, oceans aren't perfectly calm, not to mention tides are a thing. Along with this, there are some pretty simple explanations, and those explanations are similar to why we don't go flying off into space either.

If you want I can keep going.

Asking multiple times as you've still not responded:

I'm curious. If the world is flat, does it end? Are there edges we can walk to and fall off? Or does this flat earth continue indefinitely? If the earth is not flat, how can an airliner take of from New York and fly east or west to get to Russia? If it was flat, wouldn't the airline only be able to fly one direction?

Asking multiple times as you've still not responded:

I'm curious. If the world is flat, does it end? Are there edges we can walk to and fall off? Or does this flat earth continue indefinitely? If the earth is not flat, how can an airliner take of from New York and fly east or west to get to Russia? If it was flat, wouldn't the airline only be able to fly one direction?

You can beg all you want.

how much are you paid mr disinfo man

Icke is a fraud and according to Icke Moon is also an alien spaceship https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pfl4prGZIY

I loooove me some No Planes!

Come on Lucy. Get a little weird once in awhile.

If there was ever a /r/conspiracy holiday party, you know goddamn well I'd buy you a drink and try and sell you some No Planes .

Interesting that you would immediately compare this one to that. I think you are protesting a bit loudly.

INFORMATION WARFARE Prof George J. Stein, AWC Airpower Journal - Spring 1995

"Let us take just one example of how current technologies could be used for strategic-level information warfare. If, say, the capabilities of already well-known Hollywood technologies to simulate reality were added to our arsenal, a genuinely revolutionary new form of warfare would become possible. Today, the techniques of combining live actors with computer-generated video graphics can easily create a "virtual" news conference, summit meeting, or perhaps even a battle that would exist in "effect" though not in physical fact. Stored video images can be recombined or "morphed" endlessly to produce any effect chosen. This moves well beyond traditional military deception, and now, perhaps, "pictures" will be worth a thousand tanks."

If there was ever a /r/conspiracy [1] holiday party

This sounds fun! Probably a little weird but fun nonetheless.

"There is not a record of them getting it " wrong" ... Find a short pier & take a long walk .

Aww, I was hoping the "No Planes" theory was claiming that airplanes in general do not exist, and are part of some mass hallucination, and that airports are just mind-control facilities where people who claim to have flown in the sky were just getting into metal tubes and hypnotized while they were actually being transported via a secret network of underground trains pulled by giant intelligent worms. But, no, it's just another 9/11 thing, like it always is. Yawn.

Frankly, I'm disappointed in the batshit-insane theory people for not making a concerted effort to separate themselves from the various, generally hum-drum claims made daily by the "group X is taking your freedoms/money/property/brain/health" and the "secret plans of corrupt government" people.

anything beyond "the govt knew about it" is nonsense regarding 9/11.

That includes, missiles, thermite, controlled demolition and whatever else people want to proclaim.

Put ugly sweaters on the invite and I'm there.

Its sad that comments like this are so down-voted without much engagement. I think the issue is a lot of people think the MSM directly lies about things. It is far more complex than this, half-truths and assumptions are repeated until they are taken as gospel, false dichotomies are established to narrow the range of a debate etc. Outright lying is so simplistic, if there is a 'them' behind the scenes, I think they'd be a little more subtle than that. Unless its RT of course then everything is free game apparently.

I think you need to further study what propaganda is.

Here's a start:

"information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view."

:)

Or you can just try to explain how the sun changes its speed, direction, an area or illumination every day to fit a flat-earth theory and "write your bible for truth and not truth".

Shall I quote and cite my cinematography text?

A good read - http://www.debate.org/debates/Scientific-evidence-overwellmingly-supports-a-flat-earth/1/