I think a distinction needs to be made between "science" and "the scientific establishment". They are often confounded. The scientific method is great for most things; in fact, I think it's the best way of elucidating the physical (as opposed to metaphysical) details of this reality.

Making hypotheses, attempting to invalidate them, then drawing conclusions iteratively from this process is what science is, and it's very good at maintaining discipline in the acquisition of knowledge.

The scientific establishment, on the other hand, is just as fallible and subject to abuse and infiltration as any other societal institution; e.g., the government, corporations, the scouting movement, etc.

Either people in their ignorance or some shadowy mastermind is attempting to conflate science "the science" with the scientific establishment. Just because you don't trust a certain group of people, it doesn't mean that you don't believe in a system of knowledge acquisition.

Just thought I'd make that clear.

What does this have to do with the OP who is talking about vaccines? That doesn't seem to have any metaphysical aspect at all.

i see what you are saying but really the institutions drive the science, so it's not entirely wrong to conflate them together. I can't expect good science to come out of bad scientists because the definition of science they are using is incorrect.

It is the popularizers of science (the sociologists). You do not popularize science (How? By votes? Even better with mass voting bans ?). You provide opportunities for learning and practicing it. You do not close down everything to anyone who questions the 'social science' mouth breathers 'checking' of the privilege of all non elite 'herd' members).

I get really downvoted for showing this video.

http://youtu.be/KRTOB8JPwa8

its not really a hivemind it's a bunch of ai sock puppets and shills created to make you and everyone else think there are all these people who believe this crap. don't let it get to you

...Are you serious? No offence, I'm not attacking you or your beliefs at all. But you have to accept that you are in an absurdly tiny minority of people on reddit who hold this view. They're not ai sock puppets, they just disagree with you.

im confident that bots are in active use here, look at twitch.tv. 12+ kids using bots to push their viewercount to get top spots. Reddit ain't harder to manipulate.

my vote says that they are both sock puppets and hive minded people/bots in a massive circlejerk.....circle jerking with sock puppets on their hands.

I don't think you know how science works

I don't think you know how science works

There is nothing wrong with science.

The problem lies in the human factor, where science is manipulated to serve a given agenda.

where science is manipulated to serve a given agenda.

Exactly.

You are exactly the kind of person he's talking about.

You have very strong beliefs on this subject, but I doubt you could even tell me what the binomial theorem is and how a p-value is calculated.

That's a fallacy and you know it. I'm not required to have the same level of knowledge on a subject as the expert I trust have, to have the right to have an opinion on it.

Right, it's faith for you.

A straw man too? nice.

So you don't have faith in science?

I would say the fact of the matter is "science" can be treated (and is treated so) like an ideology, like communism or capitalism.

Neither do you. Science has constantly proved itself false. When our health is on the line, one shouldn't be so quick to take a gamble at the infallibility of science.

Then what do you put your trust in?

Doctors and their science used to tell everyone that smoking was good for you.

Maybe you should put your trust in your immune system. It is a very complex system that science barely understands, but they sure want to fuck with it.

The human spirit. However much I resent human beings, I still see the good in them and that what exists in nature.

I'll bet he/she's a pray the illness away lol

No, but so far my family is fortunate for being in the pink of health. We rarely visit doctors.

And that's where you are wrong. Making the assumption that so called "anti-vaxxers" are anti-science or religious nutters. We are not so easily carried away by what the governments pass off as truth, because we have learnt that they thrive on deceiving the gullible public. We hold them to a higher standard of scrutiny and that apparently is our crime.

I love how you think the government is trying to kill you off

You rarely visit doctors, but you do visit them, yes?

When you visit them, where do you think there information, knowledge, and advise comes from? It's science. The same science that develops vaccines.

That's fine though, continue to accept the science you find comforting and rejecting what you don't. You're insane and need a reality check.

When you visit them, where do you think there information, knowledge, and advise comes from? It's science. The same science that develops vaccines.

What else does science develop?

Forever altruistic.

So you consider yourself being able to scrutinize scientific data at a higher standard than millions of health professionals and scientists? that is a pretty bold claim.

Millions of scientists did not scrutinize the scientific data to back all vaccines.

Definitely not, but vaccines are endorsed by practically all of the scientific and medical community

By endorsed, you mean by default?

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Right.

Science in medicine has become totally perverted. Case in point, mercury in vaccines is good for you -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20IhxCzeuDU#t=7s

Most people don't, they just blindly follow. Doesn't help that the vaccine results aren't open to public scrutiny, http://www.naturalnews.com/046553_MMR_vaccines_scientific_fraud_criminal_corruption.html#

If you want to freely give up soverngity over your body, have at it friendo.

Without science you would not have been able to type that ridiculous comment into this thread. The core principle of science is falsification. Ironically your statement "Science has constantly proved itself false", is correct. There would have been no development of knowledge if it hadn't.

People who do not know science consider what anyone with a lab coat says to be "science". Science is iterative, not definite.

This subreddit is becoming more and more of a joke. Put your trust in the "human spirit" whatever that means. I'll put my trust in science, the institution that raised our life expectancy at birth from 20 to 80, that let us fly across the globe in less than a day, that's letting us speak to eachother right now.

Science has constantly proved itself false.

Probably the most ignorant statement I've ever heard in my entire life. And I once heard an adult say that rain is god's tears.

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Completely agree, but also clean water had something to do with it too.

Oh I was talking about humans in the neolithic age lol. But in the early 1900s, the worldwide life expectancy was 31 years. In 2010 it was 67.2. I can link the sources if you want.

That low number was a result of high infant mortality rates. The folks that survived to adults, had nearly the same lifespan as we do now.

Yes, please give the source for your 31 years figure. Scroll down in this site to see that female life expectancy at birth rose from about 45 in the mid-1800s to around 80 in modern times. Google is your friend.

http://www.nia.nih.gov/research/publication/global-health-and-aging/living-longer

http://www.who.int/global_health_histories/seminars/presentation07.pdf

Sure always open to info but aslong as its convenient for you of course.

http://www.who.int/global_health_histories/seminars/presentation07.pdf

It isn't about not having trust in science, it is about not having trust in corporations who have never had the public's best interests at heart. If you go around blindly putting your trust in something because the term "science" is attached, then you are acting in a way science has never approved of.

Agreed but that's not what metabolix was talking about. He said "science has constantly proved itself false". All I'm talking about is stuff that we can see with our own eyes. People living to 100. Planes flying from NY to Sydney. The Internet. These are all because of science. None of that requires any trust in anything. The results of science prove it's validity.

People living to 100. Planes flying from NY to Sydney. The Internet. These are all because of science.

Science is only a tool. People are the ones who did all this using science. Science helped bring them about but it doesn't deserve all the credit. The Wright brothers barely made it out of high-school and yet achieved flight. They had no engineering or science background. Just vision and drive. Science is only the method by which someone can measure and observe. It doesn't make anything.

So this (and others) issue isn't about trusting in science (an argument that is a mis-direct btw), it is about whether we as the public can trust profiteering businesses who are trying to sell us on crap while dressing said crap in science.

Tell me, should we not know (honestly) what is in what the State is trying to force into our and our children's bodies?

Well I wasn't addressing him in the context of the original post. I was simply addressing what he said. I agree with everything you said.

Pardon me if I was too abrasive. It wasn't my intent.

Oh no you weren't. I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't addressing him in the context of the original post, which I think is what you thought.

There's so much mythology in your post that the lack of self-awareness is depressing.

Care to explain?

You have no idea what you're talking about, and I forgive you for that.

Okay. I'll go to the doctor when I get sick. You just trust the human spirit and you'll be fine.

Fair enough!

Be sure to do the same if you're ever in a bad car accident. Do not get in an ambulance where they might use modern medicine and medical devices to "save" you.

It's not like vaccines were invented last month. We've been at it for a long time now you know, have some amazing success stories too!

Cool story bro.

Well therein lies the problem; it doesn't work. Because it has been corrupted.

I had been thinking about vaccinations recently and have asked the question before, but as you state, the hive mind does not want any dissent even in the form of scientific inquiry.

I was wondering why some parents of autistic children claim they displayed symptoms after getting a series of vaccinations. Interestingly enough, I worked in an agency with an autistic population. I found that a percentage of children, when reading their files, first experienced autistic symptoms after have a very bad flu with high temperature readings. I know that scientists think that in some children who get high temperatures and sick as baby's might be linked to development disorders. Hence, this is why they advocate vaccinations!

Now I was thinking that if some babies who get their vaccinations result in fevers and spiked temperatures, which is quite normal supposedly, I wondered if there might be a link there. I don't know if the vaccination itself causes it, or if a side effect of the vaccination might be resulting in higher autistic rates. This was just my thinking on the topic. Though to reddit, most who aren't scientists, I am wrong.

There is a link between vaccines and autism. MIT researcher Stephanie Seneff acknowledges this and they are working on a scientific explanation.

A new film, Trace Amounts , explains the mercury-autism link by explaining glutathione and other pathways that may be affecting this neurological condition.

Bought is also a good resource for to help friends and families understand the issues surrounding GRAS aluminum is vaccines.

There are so many resources, but those are a great place to start.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/220807175/86-Research-Papers-Supporting-the-Vaccine-Autism-Link

Thank you this is great!

What's chilling is that, if you give a response that doesn't support that narrative, you get downvoted/attacked into oblivion. Free thought & challenging points of views aren't supported.... It poses a threat to fragile minds.

It really does pose a threat to fragile minds. I enjoy exploring new ideas and ways of thinking in regards to the world. It is what made Einstein and many others a genius!

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Applying it to those "dead beat" poor people that suck up resources & a knee-jerk, sure fire way to get the populace behind you. Ever hear about that story that came out of Florida about mandatory drug tests on welfare recipients? Well that law was passed by one of the most corrupt governors in Florida history, Rick Scott. The same man behind the nation's biggest HMO frawd. Coincidently that $178 million annual contract went to one of his associates; less than 2% of the wealth fair recipient had drugs in their system. People & their prejudices are so easy to manipulate. Divide & conqure.

http://www.examiner.com/article/did-you-know-gov-rick-scott-used-his-company-to-perform-mandatory-drug-tests

In the US they start with pets, and then prisoners; eventually working their way up through old people before getting a lock on the children. RFID is a great example of this; they made it all the way up to children before they had to do a 180 because of the 2% cancer risk. It's nearly impossible to get an RFID implant now, except in pets; which, because of UN agenda 21 treason, never even missed a beat.

Your body is part of a society that interacts chemically with other bodies. Saying "It's my body, I'll decide if it gets injected or not" is no different from saying "it's my car and I will decide which side of the road to drive on and which signals to obey or ignore."

That same arguement could be used to mandate anything done to your body. Therefor forced sterilization, implanting surgical/non-surgical devices, forced medication and so on. If you believe that these things are fine then support mandating what we can and cannot do with our bodies. Hell, why not just push for all people to be designated property so you can justify the State doing whatever they want with us. They know better than us anyway right?

Yes, it's a slippery slope.

It's the wrong path. Forcing your ideals, never good.

Well said.

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You haven't been given any rights by floaty invisible ghosts so stop claiming you have

[deleted]

I believe in human rights but your sub standard iq seems to show your are part of the animal Kingdom. So go fuck a cow (or mum as you call her)

[deleted]

You believe vaccines are bad you opinions are stupid

[deleted]

Mobile user so umm not actually me, but your stupid fucking opinions all you.

"It's my body, I'll decide if it gets injected or not" is no different from saying "it's my car and I will decide which side of the road to drive on and which signals to obey or ignore."

It's completely different, what a terrible example.

Perhaps if disease was totally rampant, and vaccinations had very few side effects, then you would have a point. The reality is the opposite.

Modern day countries have very little serious diseases because of higher health standards and nutrition, not vaccination. This has been conclusively proven over and over.

yet that is exactly the argument you would use for being pro abortion.

That's correct but abortions aren't contagious.

Neither are organ extractions though, for example.

Discarding a principle (or selectively applying it) once it doesn't suit your agenda is dangerous game to play.

Neither are diseases if you have been vaccinated so why you worried?

If all of these "we don't want you to have any rights unless you do everything I want you to" people continue to get their way, one day we won't have any freedoms at all unless we're on both knees begging for them from the state.

Statists hate to question authority, and they hate those that do even more.

It's not the questioning of authority that bothers people, it's the irrational refusal to listen to any answers that conflict with your established worldview that bothers people. It's intentionally ignoring a mountain of evidence showing vaccines to be safe and effective in favor of uncritically accepting any groundless anti vaccine propaganda that bothers people.

The funny thing is these studies that people hold up as science, are funded by the drug companies that would gain profit from said studies. The vaccine scedule that people want your kid to be on, isn't even approved by the FDA.

Science and the scientific method, when carried out correctly, is objectively the best way of determining these sorts of things. That having been said, just because it's the best way doesn't mean it can be wrong - in fact science progresses exactly through careful questioning of every aspect. The bigger issue arises when the scientific method isn't followed for whatever reason. At that point you're no longer dealing with science, you're dealing with corruption which should definitely be questioned.

TL;DR Proper science is probably right but should still be questioned. Most medical science is corrupt, however.

Thank you. I fully accept the use of vaccinations, but there exist no blind studies conducted with the use of vaccinations. All that is used is longterm data, that some argue is skewed because while it shows a decrease in certain diseases over the longterm use of vaccinations, there is a conflicting variable, which is the introduction of legislation such as the clean water act, proper sanitation, and an overall more cleanly society based on higher hygienic standards.

For instance, vaccinations during the early to mid 1800s had increase and decrease of certain illnesses in areas where inoculation was administered. Smallpox, chlorea and whopping cough were never fully exterminated.

We see a major decrease and further virtual extermination if these disease in the early 1900s to the mid 1900s. While vaccinations became almost compulsory, they coincided with the public hygiene movement consisting of better sanitation, plumping and waste disposal.

I am not saying that vaccinations are completely worthless, but this almost dogmatic and religious pedestal that the use of vaccinations is put on by a majority of people is disheartening. With any medications, we run them through blind and double blind studies. Vaccination studies are given the exception in regards to the studies. Researchers do not use control groups and lack reliability and validity. When someone is given the vaccination, and they catch the virus, such as the flu, it's chalked up to "well if they didn't have the vaccination it would have been worse."

i posted a similar thread about vaccination the other day that didn't gain as much traction. props.

My angle & concern is from a religious point of view, here me out. I don't know if many folks are familiar with the prophecies of the old testiment, but I often ask myself... Having read about the topic, years ago, I asked myself

"How could the prophecies ever come true?, how can people allow themselves to be enslaves, having the knowledge ? "

One world currency : emplosion of the world currency & the resurgence of a government sactioned crypto currency.

One world govt : multi-national Corporations infiltrate Govt, desolve national Sovergnity, Facist corporations break & enforce laws through the TTP & the creation of the Eurasion Union, European Union, North American union.

Mark of the beast: the desolution of personal rights & sovernity, false flag epidemic & mandatory "vaccinations" to have a chip installed. You don't play ball, you get shund by society.

One world religion: we're living in modern day crusades & there is a holy war going on in Babalyon (Iraq). The West will defeat the Islamic nations and/or convince Islam to join the pluralistic world church. Under a peace agreement the city of Jerusalem will become an international religious center.

I for one, want to live a long & fulfilling life, like the generations before me have. I just can't shake this nagging thought, that the possibility to usher in this NWO, is being fufilled before our very eyes. I'll probably get bashed & rediculed.... But this is a general concern of mine & this community may be one of the few, that may have an open mind about the topic.

Notice the upsurge in Satanistic stories coming out of the UK? Powerful people fucking/killing/sacrificing kids? Satanist Jimmy Savile? Pedo MP's? Those poor siblings that have essentially been dismissed by the Govt & the subsequent coverup & media blackout? C'mon.

Hahaha hahaha

Trust me, I hope I'm wrong.

Blows my mind. We weren't born shooting up. We don't need it. We need to take care of ourselves better, sure, but that doesn't mean ingesting whatever men tell us

'Men'

Doesn't apply. The first tier are sociopaths. The second tier are beaten, cowed, ineffectual middle managers who have given up on being honest in the face of their failures. The third tier are mindless sheep and children who just believe what their bosses, politicians, and preachers tell them.

The third tier are just like christian fundamentalists and islamic extremists. Not really even people, just followers. A mob that gets more ignorant and destructive the larger it gets.

My fight isn't against my brothers and sisters.

It's not even the "hivemind" anymore- those days are gone. Now most comments are made by paid shills.

I hate to give Alex Jones credit, but here really coined a good phrase, but his website says "there's a war on for your mind." That phrase becomes relevant, when you see desenting points of views be quickly dismissed.

[deleted]

Black holes don't exist? What? Source please?

[deleted]

Lol, one day you might take a physics class.... maybe when you reach high school.

[deleted]

Religious people ROFL. Man you must really be grasping at straws to exist in your own world. I bet I'm a paid shill too.

[deleted]

I'm sorry, I can't cure your autism through a reddit comment.

[deleted]

^ Lol.

Well considering the well founded, continually tested and supported model we have that explains how vaccines work, along with the remarkable success of mass vaccination in greatly diminishing or even eliminating the risks of contracting multiple diseases, I'd say they're on to something with this whole vaccine thing.

Pharmaceutical companies arent the most scrupulous, morally superior entities. We have had our Govt I filtrated by pharmaceutical companies & now they are using fear & mandatory legislation to impose their products on us.

"Nothing could be more antithetical to the very idea of individual freedom than to have governments telling us that we must put some substance in our bodies. Without ownership of our body and the attendant right to refuse this or that medicine as we see fit, we are nothing more than slaves of the state. This is a principle that has been long understood."

https://www.corbettreport.com/forced-vaccinations-and-the-death-of-health-freedom/

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/drug-companies-perform-medical-tests-in-developing-countries-a-899798.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/02/testing-drugs-on-the-developing-world/273329/

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/02/testing-drugs-on-the-developing-world/273329/

If people are dumb enough to refuse to vaccinate their kids, then they should be forced to do so. This is no different then forcing parents to put food into their children's bodies.

tbousands of years of our auto immune system fighting off viruses; you really don't give the human species much credit. Perhaps too much trust in the pharmaceutical companies. Only time will tell, who is on the right side of history.

Are you suggesting that humanity in locations with mass vaccination campaigns just happened to evolve immunity to the exact same disease being vaccinated at the exact same time?

Nope, not implying that. Measles for example, there was an outbreak in the 50's. We made it out of it, just fine.

Humans got by just fine for thousands of years without modern medicine. What's your point?

Mandating vaccination shouldn't be enforced. Put you blindly trust the 25 vaccinations they impose on children, the kids/adults that don't get it, pose no threat to you. Let it be optional.

Yes I trust that vaccines are safe and beneficial given their remarkably successful track record and lack of harm. I trust that the medical profession knows what it's doing and I trust that vaccines are properly regulated. You have similar trust in all matter of systems. For instance, every time you walk into a building you probably don't worry about it collapsing on you. Why don't you worry? Because you don't have to, because you can trust that the people who designed it and the people who built it knew what they were doing. Because you can trust that the building inspectors know what they're doing. And because this mode of building produces stable structures— buildings don't just fall down (jet fuel and steel beams not withstanding).

Finally, refusal to vaccinate does pose a threat to me. I'm guessing you've heard of the importance of herd immunity for vaccines to work successfully. Vaccinating widely has a huge secondary benefit in reducing the number of disease carriers. So when you or your kid don't get vaccinated, you reduce the effectiveness of vaccination as a whole. When you allow your child to be a disease vector, you increase the odds of other children becoming ill. Additionally, a parent refusing to vaccinate her child needlessly increases the risk of that child becoming ill- needlessly inflicting harm. I know parents who refuse to vaccinate their kids think they're protecting them, but they're wrong. We know they're wrong, and we have a compelling interest to not allow them to do this. An interest that, to me at least, clearly outweighs the limitation to their personal autonomy.

Honest question for those "pro vaxxers" out there.

If vaccines are so effective and "mostly safe" how come companies are immune to damages caused by their products? In what other industry in the entire world is this acceptable?

Other than guns (obviously) any industry is going to be held accountable for the damages it causes, particularly if it knows the dangers ahead of time.

http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/March-2011/No-Pharma-Liability--No-Vaccine-Mandates-.aspx

Vaccination against polio was probably a good thing. It saved a lot of young kids from getting this terrible disease. Is it still necessary in Western countries? No. Polio has been virtually wiped out. I say "virtually" because all the illegal immigration from Central America, that Obama is not only allowing but actively enabling, is bringing polio and other deadly diseases back into America, after they were wiped out.

Do we need vaccination against the flu? No. Against measles? No. Against mumps? No. Against any of the host of non-life-threatening diseases that we have always coped with perfectly fine without vaccines? No.

Here here.

I hope all of your children get Polio.

Actually I don't, but whatever.

That made me chuckle, cheers friendo.

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That's how Gattaca gets started, we're the chimpanzees of the future hehe.

Not as sickening as the diseases that can be prevented with vaccinations.

Not all vaccinations are inherently bad, I agree. Polio is a great example.... But to impose vaccines that have a long track history & impose it on a large segment of society is a bad precedence.

I strongly disagree that forcing vaccination of children sets a bad precedent. We already have a wide range of laws that restrict parents authority to harm their children.

I believe it sets a precedence that government is having more & more Sovergnity over family; it takes the place of family. Our immune system has kept the human species alive for thousands of years; give it a little more credit.

[deleted]

Well, hundreds of thousands if you want to get specific; I don't have my carbon dating data readily available.

Again, we already prohibit the ability of parents to harm their children. I think this is a good thing. As for your comment about the immune system, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. Yes our species as a whole has thrived without vaccines but disease was still an ever present threat. And vaccines don't replace the role of the immune system. They just stimulate the immune system, giving the body the ability to recognize a given pathogen.

I believe that people ought to have sovereignty over their bodies. If enough people subscribe to vaccinations & trust the providers, then the the folks that do not subscribe to vaccinations will die off. If your kids are vaccinated, the kids that don't have vaccination pose no threat. The "save the children" line is hog-wash. If we really cared about kids, we would have guaranteed rights to food, water, shelter, health care, education . The inadequacies I mentioned, are a more present threat to children, than the possible threat of an epidemic. Show me a government that tackles those issues, and then they might have the moral high ground, to impose legislation on our bodies.

But this really is largely a "think of the children" issue since most vaccinations are given while young and children are unable to make the decision to get vaccinated for themselves. Furthermore, from my perspective, it is the anti Vax crowd that are engaging in emotional histrionics. They have to try and scare people with nonsense about things like autism because, unlike the pro Vax side, they don't have a massive body of evidence and decades of success to support their position. Not to mention the fact that the uncritical warnings about "big pharma" are typically offered as if the profitability of vaccine production alone is reason to question it. It's just an appeal to big business as a boogeyman.

And vaccines don't replace the role of the immune system. They just stimulate the immune system,

Actually they damage the immune system, as a side effect. By over stimulation of the immune system.

It's not necessary anyways, as the reason disease rates are so low is because of health and nutrition standards, not vaccination.

science will always correct science. If you were right, and only big Pharma scientist were the only ones saying vaccines are good for you, I might be more sceptical. But doctors who aren't on the payroll and have nothing to gain also say vaccines are good for you.

How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People: https://youtu.be/B_hCLWtEHL8

It's not that people don't question the science, its that the science is solid. As reddit has a large number of people with STEM degrees, they are not swayed by ad hominem attacks against pharmaceutical companies, especially since what most of the stuff anti-vaccine advocates say is inaccurate. Like the misconception that big pharma profits off of vaccines... they actually barely break even for most pharmaceutical companies.

Like the misconception that big pharma profits off of vaccines... they actually barely break even for most pharmaceutical companies.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Barely break even on each unit sold, when millions are sold I'd say it's plenty profitable.

"people that blindly believe in science"

You fucking what

like saying that people only use it for good when people are clear cold cut bastards

Please don't get vaccinated and make the gene pool slightly cleaner when you pass away at 25 from a completely preventable disease

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

Jokes on you; get vaccinated & become sterile. Either way, Agenda 21 is on its way.

With all this 'the government's out to get us' bullshit this thread is laughable. Don't you think that by sterilising the west the government's of the west would lose out to the many other governments around the world who wouldn't implement this fucking stupid idea? Trying watching utopia on 4od in the UK you'll love it, it's a good program and you'll think it's a documentary

Do you know what sub your in friendo? Go to world news

I did think it would be a bit more factual and not just 'here's a thought I've pulled out of my arse. I have no proof, in fact every single bit of evidence/eye witness account points out I'm wrong but let's sit in a circle and wank each other off and tell each other how right we are.' So far this is like r/Christianity in the complete lack of knowledge and disregard for any actual evidence

And if I did provide links, (as I did in another comment) in sure you would dismiss it or call into question the source, yaddi yaddi yadda. If I get a virus, I'll make sure to cough on you to test your immunity. ;-)

Please when you do get ill please quietly die in the corner without disturbing the intelligent people. Actually maybe we should just make that a rule for your life, when you make something up and think about talking bollocks just go to the corner and be quiet so your stupid ideas don't kill kids.

I have no proof, in fact every single bit of evidence/eye witness account points out I'm wrong

No, bill gates foundation is being sued in india right now due to vaccine side effects.

Non-mobile: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

^{That's why I'm here, I don't judge you. PM /u/xl0 if I'm causing any trouble. WUT?}

Okay. I'll go to the doctor when I get sick. You just trust the human spirit and you'll be fine.

...Are you serious? No offence, I'm not attacking you or your beliefs at all. But you have to accept that you are in an absurdly tiny minority of people on reddit who hold this view. They're not ai sock puppets, they just disagree with you.

When you visit them, where do you think there information, knowledge, and advise comes from? It's science. The same science that develops vaccines.

What else does science develop?

Forever altruistic.

http://www.who.int/global_health_histories/seminars/presentation07.pdf

http://www.who.int/global_health_histories/seminars/presentation07.pdf

I believe it sets a precedence that government is having more & more Sovergnity over family; it takes the place of family. Our immune system has kept the human species alive for thousands of years; give it a little more credit.