What the hell is wrong with r/conspiracy? At Obama's bidding, the Bolivian presidential jet is denied access to French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese airspace, and nobody here is even talking about it.

251 2013-07-03 by Sabremesh

Bolivian President Evo Morales was forced to land in Vienna because several European countries refused to allow his diplomatic plane through their airspace. The US suspected that Edward Snowden was also on the presidential plane, and used its influence to to get these countries to do their bidding.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-asylum-live

Edit: wrong link posted, now rectified! I was following events as they happened last night and woke up to find no mention of it or r/conspiracy, so possibly I over-reacted. The governments involved are trying to play this down like crazy, but this was a huge diplomatic gaffe by the US and some of its cronies. Including France, eh...who knew they were Obama's bitch?

58 comments

Thes Snowden-timeline of the Guardian provides a good overview about this incident:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-asylum-live

I really cringed and shook my head when I heard about this forced stop. It is just pathetic. First Portugal, Spain, France, Italy and probably also Austria are spied upon and now these nations are helping the perpetrator to catch the key witness. They are so eager to please their hegemon and master, that they breach the diplomatic immunity of the head of a sovereign nation. The only silver lining in this tragic drama is the reaction of the South American leaders.

One wonders, what secret agreements between the US and the European countries exist and what kind of blackmail material is in the hands of ruthless elements within the US.

Exactly. There's so much double speak from EVERYONE that it's so obvious most of the country governments are working together. Shit, for all we know, the intangible image or likeness of Snowden could be being milked like Christopher Dorner right now, just to confuse us, and he's already dead.

We're all fucked. This world is fucked, this planet is fucked. No point for anything anymore, man.

"In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

John 16:33

/r/conspiracy : one of the only places where a Mesopotamian hippie mystic who I am graced to consider my savior gets any love.

Jesus?

I am slow!

Jesus, I'm slow too. :)

Thats because some of us are actually on to the one and only true conspiracy... The abolishing of God in our daily lives.

Naw, not the only one. It's a bad one though, and Catholic priests and Westboro Baptists ain't helpin'.

[deleted]

Learn to swim.

Stop being such a negatron. Be the change you want to see. Do you want everyone to just give up? You are a pathetic excuse for a human being.

I have to agree....we are bound to a system that infuriates us because we feel so attached to it. Who doesn't want to be comfortable? to feel safe? to have the conveniences that financial security provides? These things depend on control, and for decades, the gub'mint of the United States of America has fought the people's (aka...other nation states) right to self determination by dangling the carrot of consumerism and manipulating the way it's managed on a global scale.

Control shifted from political systems to capitalism, an economic system that doesn't discriminate according to any of the hallmarks of social freedom. In fact, it casts it's light through the social prism and reveals the rainbow of injustice managed by an existing social system, be it driven by religious or political ideology.

Ultimately, it provides an illusion that empowers the individual, and, ultimately, it requires a different kind of control to manage power and profit.

That is the lesson that bin Laden taught us. Whether he had conspiratorial help or not, he made a laughing stock of the historical means of intelligence gathering and political manipulation.

Be the change you want to see.

We are the voices now for social change, human rights, and equality. We are ones who expose individual injustices, everywhere in the world...and that makes us all ideologues. Ideologues are dangerous to existing power structures.

Be proud of yourselves...you are now as powerful as the people your government fears, regardless of where you live.

I will not start bombing police officer's homes, kicking in their doors at 3 am and shooting their dogs.

Because that's the only thing that will take us off of their coarse.

That's good, dont do that. There are other ways to be hears though.

It is angering me how pathetic and deceitful western elites behave.

But the more I think about it, this might have been the intention of Snowden. His sequence of leaks and announcements gave them exactly so much rope, that they could hang themselves. Now Clapper, Obama and EU-politicans are exposed as lying hypocrites. None of the western democracies which proclaim to stand for freedom and human rights has answered positive to Snowden's application for asylum.

Shit, for all we know, the intangible image or likeness of Snowden could be being milked like Christopher Dorner right now, just to confuse us, and he's already dead.

I don't believe this. Snowden has been quite resourceful. His journalist of choice is Glenn Greenwald. Greenwald has a great track record when it comes to exposing hypocrisy and undemocratic double speak. Snowden has given Greenwald and various other people in the world encrypted files which will certainly expose more lies in the future. I think this story is far from over.

We mustn't waste this opportunity and demand accountability from our leaders. Here is a quite uplifting Greenwald speech from last week about Snowden's motivation (just skip the introduction by the screaming lady in the beginning).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Uulv4ve6RJ8#t=614s

This quote from the French was particularly galling:

In a briefing, the French foreign office spokesman was asked why France had closed its airspace to Morales's flight, and was asked to detail exactly when requests had been made by Bolivia for the flight to cross French airspace. The spokesman said only: “Authorisation to fly over [French] national territory has been given to the Bolivian president's flight. We don't want to stoke any controversy on this subject via the press.”

oh no, wouldn't want the proles - I mean press - knowing why we stopped it.
Everyone's remaining very tight lipped.

BTW, I posted about this incident earlier so it was posted here but no comments. It was pretty early in the day:
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1hja5c/bolivian_presidents_jet_rerouted_amid_suspicions/

working together would mean equal participants...

As an Austrian: I am so sorry and I feel so ashamed for our government!

This just proves that Europe is nothing more than USA's little bitch..

It's not even a nationalist thing. They're just all the bitches of the bankers.

Hell of a way to go down in history. I think that's what it actually means in the Bible when it says things like "the sinners will burn forever in hell". They just disgrace themselves in the annals of history, and can't escape the fate they made for themselves. /crazy opinion

Not crazy opinion. I believe similar things.

Not us but USA spy crooks are getting paranoid

Yup, that was the link I meant to post in the title comments!

Europeans know the USA is only interested in spying on Muslims, and they're ok with that since anti-Muslim sentiment is pretty strong in Europe these days.

Let's do an exercise, a reversal. All you need to do is imagine for a moment that the plane was actually Air Force One with Obama on-board. What do you think would happen if it flew over Bolivia and the south American nations forced it to land due to them suspecting a state enemy might be carried alongside Obama?

THE WORLD WOULDN'T BE THE SAME THE NEXT DAY.

Air Force One is full of enemy of the people all the time.

There's the scenario where the Bolivian President is in cahoots with security zealots and willing participant in this whole mess, dropping off Snowden to a CIA black site in Austria. (idea came from MOX News)

Seems someone really wants to fan the fires of international conflict. Thankfully, angering third world countries' governments won't lead to much other than some shouting at UN meets and perhaps some demonstration and riots at some embassy or diplomatic compound... oh, wait...

It's gotten to to point I suspect the latest leaks and stellar whistleblowing antics are part of the imperial narrative, to advance the moves on the board. Will Germany, Russia, China take the bait?

Oh well, off to dust off the grill. I can use some beer.

Why is the world still interested in pleasing the US?

The last couple of weeks has filled the wtf bucket to it's brim. The wtf bucket is now overflowing.

Obama - "I'm not going to scramble jets to catch some hacker"

According to Glenn Greenwald, the 3 countries who refused their airspace have all participated in the US's extraordinary rendition program:

"A 2013 report from Open Society documents that Spain and Portugal were among the nations who participated in various ways in rendition flights - ie kidnapping - by the US. In particular, the report found, "Spain has permitted use of its airspace and airports for flights associated with CIA secret detention and extraordinary rendition operations." Similarly, "Portugal has permitted use of its airspace and airports for flights associated with CIA extraordinary rendition operations." The French judiciary previously investigated reports that the French government knowingly allowed the CIA to use its airspace for renditions." http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/03/clapper-lying-snowden-eu-bolivia

so it seems likely that they'd be easily coerced by the US on this one. I guess what Obama meant when he said he wouldn't bother scrambling jets to go after Snowden was that he'd get other countries to do the dirty work for him.

Can't talk about it here because of the censorship.

Take it to /r/worldpolitics , or offer an alternative subreddit. Thanks.

The whole Snowden saga is contrived. It is a distraction, don't pay attention to it.

why do you say that?

Nice try, shill. Let me guess, you're still on minimum wage, right?

I'd say there's just too much shit going on right now to properly keep track of everything. I knew about the Vienna touch-down, but wasn't aware there were more countries involved.

I don't get why all of the asylum requests have fallen apart. I don't get what happened with Ecuador. Why did Correa go from saying that Ecuador couldn't be bullied with US economic threats to completely walking away from Snowden? This whole story about Biden being polite and Assange being too involved just doesn't make sense to me. We're supposed to believe that Correa, a guy who was prepared to forgo preferential trade with the States in order to defend a principle, suddenly forgot all about principle because Joe Biden was polite to him on the phone and because he just noticed that Julian Assange is controlling? What?

Threats or blackmail. Could it be the NSA/CIA have incriminating information on the leaders of every sovereign country, as well as the dirt they have on US judges, politicians etc?

That's kind of mind-blowing to think about. If you're right, Snowden is stuck in this airport until he can find a head of state who is not only willing to defy the US but who has no career-destroying secrets. Crap.

You know what? I think that who ever asked France etc to stop the aircraft knew full well that Snowden wasn't in there.

By the way, Isn't it true what the aircraft has not been searched ?

The motive? To show worldwide the power of the mighty usa which can reach any corner with no repercussions so go on try leak something.

Or maybe not, just a theory.

I think this is the least of our worries.

There are already several posts OP on the subject. Use the search box.

Do shut up. None of the posts had achieved any traction - that was my beef.

I never shut up and if you post then expect a reaction. Learn to deal with it.

If you don't like being told to shut up, then try to make your "reactions" more relevant and meaningful.

It was relevant. It addressed your headline assertion that no one was talking about it. When several redditors posted such already. Stop acting like a baby because you didn't word your headline correctly. Noob.

There was no "discussion" about the Morales re-route on r/conspiracy, so your initial comment was a waste of everybody's time, and your attempts to justify yourself after the fact are just pathetic.

And...noob? Oh, my sides. I guess that makes you what...a foetus?

[deleted]

The plane re-routing is mainstream news, but the reasons behind this unprecedented event should properly be discussed here.

Because everyone knows that can easily happen here, its old and minor news.

I guess for new people, newly awakened its a big deal, but if you followed this for several years its no big deal.

I believe they mean "no big dead" in a relative sense.

That is one of the most pretentious things I've ever read. You think you're much better than everyone don't you? The Ops post is a verifiable piece of news that actually happened and is reported in a professional matter. Would you prefer sensationalist info graphics with big words over fuzzy images of girders saying something or another was an inside job because of some weird specific knowledge of building design that no one knows enough to confirm or deny?

That's why this sub has no reputation. Everything is taken to obviously be true no matter how ridiculous. So when something they for sure happened that could be a big deal it doesn't even compare to half of the bullshit on here so no one pays it any attention.

You don't have to be here...

I agree with the sentiment. Most people are like masturbating over the idea government is behind everything. I know this because I also want to point the finger, it's much harder to look at things critically. This is why the public think we are crazy.

You're right, sadly a few people on this sub just lap up any conspiracy news regardless of proof. However most actually base their views off of evidence, as usual the vocal minority create the impression of a majority.

Get lost troll.

How very open minded of you. Bigger comment that disagrees with you and you dismiss it as trolling, although I fail to see what was troll like with my comment. If you want everyone to blindly agree with your beliefs and opinions then you're as misguided as the "Sheeple" you think are misguided.

Get lost troll, you didn't discuss the issue, didn't post why I was wrong, just disagreed and made yourself sound like you are way better than to discuss stuff with mere mortals. So that is why you need to get lost.

Like you did with the OP?